Hallmark ITTP Probe

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RJS100
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Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by RJS100 »

I am a newbie with CNC and working on a CNC conversion of a Precision Matthews PM-833TV milling machine. This will be used in my home shop for hobbyist work. I am almost finished with wiring and bench testing of my Acorn control panel. So far, everything has gone very well!

I was just pre-wiring for a probe and stumbled on a few videos regarding the Hallmark ITTP probe. The two things that I found appealing is it's impact tolerant feature as well as the fact that it can be ordered with a TTS 12mm shank. Does anybody have any thoughts on this probe? Is there any reason it may not be fully compatible with Acorn?

The Acorn schematic illustrates the KP-3 probe using two inputs (the probe signal & probe detect). I emailed Cliff at Hallmark Designs for a schematic on the ITTP probe and he emailed me indicating that the Hallmark probe operates by breaking a simple N/C circuit. Please let me know your thoughts. Here is the note I rec'd from Cliff at Hallmark Designs:

The ITTP is of simple electro mechanical operation suitable for switching around 5v. It consists of a simple NC circuit (normally closed), using two connector wires (normally pins 4/5 of a 5 pin DIN plug either side of the centre pin), the circuit is broken on a touch event when the probe stylus tip contacts the work. To date it has only been fully in house tested on Tormach machines with PathPilot software and since February 2017 scores have been shipped to these users, with nil significant issues to date . An increasing number of non Tormach owners have also purchased since 2017, installing on different types of machine and control software, and so far nil problems reported. A US based electrical technician has been for a while now testing on a home built PM conversion running Mach3 and all is well. Here is a link to one of his videos showing the electrical details. CNC4XR Electrics
I have sold several to Centroid Acorn owners, feedback example: Hi Cliff. I can report that the Hallmark ITTP is a good fit with the Centroid Acorn controller. I found your probe to be very well made, robust, simple and accurate. The price was also good resulting in a sound investment. Attached to Acorn’s IN7 block the Hallmark ITTP is a straightforward solution to adding touch probe capability to any machine with an Acorn controller. Highly recommended! - Wayne M USA


Thanks... Richard
martyscncgarage
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Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by martyscncgarage »

You can put a connector on the ITTP, one pin COMMON, one pin SIGNAL, You can then jumper from COM to PROBE detect.
Using a CPC (Circular Pin Connector) similar to the DP-4
https://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/d ... manual.pdf
Cliff makes a good probe. He put a lot of R&D into it, and he liquid fills it to prevent contact corrosion

For more information on Probe setup, please take the time to go hereL
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
And look for the "Acorn Probe Setup Guide"

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
RJS100
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:41 pm
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Location: Arizona

Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by RJS100 »

Thanks for your thoughts Marty. Very helpful. I read the documents you suggested and have two questions:

1. If I understand you correctly: The connection between common & probe signal tell CNC12 that the probe has been triggered. The connection between common and probe detect tells CNC12 that the probe is active. In your description, you use a jumper such that by physically plugging in the probe connector, you closed the connection between common and probe detect to let CNC12 know that the probe is active.

Cliff from Hallmark Designs describes his probe as a using a Normally Closed switch. There were two different schematics available on the Acorn probe setup guide. One for a normally open probe and one for a normally closed probe (see attached). Your wiring description matches the schematic for a normally open probe. For a normally closed probe, they suggest using a "Poor Mans" switch to tell CNC12 that the probe is active. I don't understand why I can't use the wiring you suggested for the normally closed probe and make use of the act of plugging in the connector to close the circuit. Am I confusing something here?

2. Cliff describes his probe as a mechanical switch capable of switching 5V. I am using 24V logic throughout my panel. Do you think I would need to use the DB25 inputs with the 5V output from the Meanwell supply?

Thanks again for you help... Richard
Attachments
NO Probe w nc probe detect.JPG
NC Probe with manual Detect switch.JPG
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
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Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by martyscncgarage »

I went back and watch one of Cliff's videos. He has no visual indicator that I could see. If this is correct, then he is simply OPENING the circuit when the probe trips. Should be a non issue with Acorn. You will just open the probe tripped circuit and yes you would setup for NC probe.

I only showed you a DP-4 as an example of how to wire a connector with the PROBE DETECT circuit grounded when you connect the probe. It enables safety features in CNC12. Namely NOT turning on your spindle with the touch probe connected. How you do it is up to you. I find the plastic CPC connectors and sockets in expensive, so I follow the Centroid convention/pin outs when I wire my probes to my control. I use the very same CPC connectors and sockets. The pins are the same pins used in DB style connectors. I have crimpers to crimp pins.

If you enter HALLMARK in the search box upper right corner of the page, you will find many hits discussing it.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
RJS100
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:41 pm
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Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by RJS100 »

Thanks for the clarification and detailed explanation. This seems very straight forward. I think I will email cliff about switching 5V vs. 24V The current is so small I can't imagine it being an issue.

Thanks again... Richard
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by martyscncgarage »

All you are doing is grounding the 24vdc signal from Acorn to activate it's input
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
RJS100
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:41 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Arizona

Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by RJS100 »

Thanks for all your thoughts. I re-read the documentation on probe setup and realized that I had missed an important note. The probe trigger circuit can be programmed to either NO or NC. I missed the fact that the probe detection circuit must be NC (standard fail-safe wiring).

Therefore the attached wiring diagram can be used for either a NO or NC probe as long as the protection circuit is NC. The heading at the top of the diagram (Normally Open Probe....) threw me.

I reached out to Cliff with respect to the Hallmark ITTP probe. Cliff is willing to wire the the probe with an internal jumper across common and one of the pins to provide a NC detection circuit (just as depicted in the drawing below.

Just thought I would share this. Thanks again.... Richard
Attachments
NO Probe w nc probe detect.JPG
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by martyscncgarage »

Again, its more convenient to put a connector on the head of the machine and wire it to the Acorn board.
Then add a mating connector to the probe cable. In that connector you need 3 pins.
If you want it wired internally to the probe, I suppose that is fine but are you just going to let the cable flop around inside the machine?
I'll try and post a picture later today of the CPC connector and cable from a DP4.

If you get the CPC, the same connector can be used for the tool setter. You just need one more pin for IT'S detection circuit.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
RJS100
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:41 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Arizona

Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by RJS100 »

Thanks for you thoughts regarding putting putting the jumper on the connector at the head of the machine. This makes sense to me.

I had have not used a milling machine since high school (40+ years ago) so the workflow is a bit fuzzy. I watched one of Cliff's videos demonstrating the use of his new ITTP PRO probe with the removable probe cord. See 1:55 seconds.

(

In this video he explains the advantage of using a short probe chord and leaving it attached to the machine. This may not work as well with the layout/hookup of other machines.

If I am thinking this through correctly, I could have Cliff wire the jumper inside his probe, then decide at the time I actually install this thing to either use his internal jumper wiring, or disregard his third wire and put a jumper in the connector at the head of the machine. I think having the jumper in the probe will give me the most latitude. Again... Thanks for your insight!

All the best... Richard
RJS100
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:41 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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DC3IOB: No
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Location: Arizona

Re: Hallmark ITTP Probe

Post by RJS100 »

OOPS.. One last question. You discussed using the same CPC connector for both the probe and tool setter with the additional detections pins. If I use the Tormach TTS tool holders and program the relative tool lengths, is there still a need for a tool setter?
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