retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

All things related to the Centroid Acorn CNC Controller

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ShawnM
Posts: 424
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CNC Control System Serial Number: 7804734C6498-0401191832
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by ShawnM »

I agree it could be a noise issue since there is no shielding anywhere in the build, this is Lagunas fault, not yours. Look at your error log Dave and post a pic or a report.

F7 utility
F9 logs
F1 errors

Do you see any communication errors or just the axis tripped?

Are you pressing F8 to graph the cut BEFORE you press cycle start?

Are there a lot of vibrations while cutting? Grab the spindle and it should feel smooth while cutting. I don't know what feeds and speed you are cutting at nor the rigidity of the Laguna machines.

Try setting up as if you are cutting the same thing again and remove the stock and do an air cut. Do you get the same results? If you do it could very well be noise.
dweber
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Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by dweber »

I disconnected the relay that sends the signal to the spindle and did a air test and it went through the entire cut program with out stopping. I hooked the relay back up and disconnected the wires at the spindle and it quit after a few minutes.
Shawn, you knew the probability was very high I would eventually have a noise problem. I'll bet you were wondering why it took so long. If a picture is worth a thousand words, then experience is worth a thousand pictures. You know those reality shows where they remodel a house an at every turn they have a unexpected problem. I know how they feel.
Bought some shielded wire and ordered in some wire connectors and have my work cut out for me. Shawn has to much time invested in me, can't let him down now. :mrgreen:
ShawnM
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 8:34 am
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CNC Control System Serial Number: 7804734C6498-0401191832
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by ShawnM »

Glad you have some good quality shielded wire on order. I know you weren't planning on diving in quite this far with your Acorn upgrade but you can't turn back now. You'll be glad you swapped out that old Chinese controller for the Acorn, I promise. I know you didn't have any issues before with the old controller (mounted in it's metal fortress) but the Acorn is a more delicate flower. Delicate but robust. It's light years ahead of your old controller. Way more versatile and the support for the Acorn is endless.

Please, please whatever you do do not run your new shielded wire through those terminal blocks like it is wired now. Run one four conductor shielded wire from the Acorn directly to the stepper drive signal. Do not splice it through the terminal blocks like it is now. Ground the shield at the Acorn end to your new ground bus bar. Only ground one end of the stepper drive cable. Same thing for the analog signal going from Acorn H8 to your VFD. Run one two conductor, shielded wire directly from the Acorn to the VFD. Do not wire through any terminal block. Ground the shield at the Acorn end of that cable to the same ground bus bar. Ground all shields on your new bus bar, no where else. If you get any minor VFD fluctuations while running add a .1 ceramic cap across the terminals at H8. One like this - https://www.sparkfun.com/products/8375

Same for the 4 conductor cable on the VFD, directly from the VFD to the spindle. This is where things may be a little different. There are some instances where you may need to ground both ends of the shield on your VFD cable. Try grounding only the end of the shield at the VFD side to your bus bar. If that doesn't help ground both ends of the shield on the VFD cable. I've heard of some trying one or both ends to get the noise out, it all depends on your noise situation.
dweber
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Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by dweber »

For starters I have taken the power supply cables out of the cable tray and routed them along one side of the cabinet wall. Also the wires from acorn to the leadshine will be routed along the opposite wall of the cabinet and not the cable tray. Hopefully by that time my new shop will be up and I can get the router out of its storage spot so I can work on the rest of it. For now I am concentrating on the inside the cabinet.
dweber
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Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by dweber »

I cut open one of the wires I am replacing and look what was under the outer shell and around the wires.
20210429_224257.jpg
dweber
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:39 pm
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Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by dweber »

Thought I would share what is happening on this side of my adventure.
I started out changing wires in the cabinet for shielded wire. Then I found out the machine has shielded wire it just was not grounded which makes the shield not much good. So I started soldering ground wires on the original shielded wires. Now that the wires were grounded it was time to try things out. When I start CNC12 up for the first time for the day quite often the red words that indicated you have to push the reset button does not come on. I still have to push the reset anyway to start anything. This time was no different. Push the reset and the cycle start button to set home.
Z travel goes to the minus instead of plus towards limit switch, quickly I push the cycle stop. Immediately I start checking that I didn’t have a wire switched, and check, and checked about 12 times and could not find anything wrong,
I try the direction buttons on the VCP and the spindle will only travel in the minus direction. I go into the wizard to check all setting and all was set as should be. I save settings anyway and the Z travel started working correctly. Set home then loaded a job and set the machine as needed for cut program leaving Z travel above the board so it would cut air for starters. The machine went through the entire program without any problem. Time for celebration. It was late so I shut everything down for the night.
Next morning I come out and start everything up, no red reset message as normal, I push the reset button as usual. Push cycle start to set home and spindle will only travel in minus direction again. This time no matter what I do I can’t get it to travel in plus direction. CNC12 screen shows machine Z coordinates are in the plus area. I disconnect Z driver so Z won’t travel . Then push the Z minus button on the VCP until CNC machine coordinates say minus 6” (my travel distance.) I plug the Z driver back in and all is working again. I proceed with checking things out and a few tests and all is working correctly.
Now that everything was working again I decided to hook my water cooling pump for the spindle to the #1 relay on the board. All is working as it should so let’s try cutting a board. I set everything to cut including the graph function. Spindle moves into position starts to lower and then stops. CNC12 says it lost either net connection. I pull up bulletin 270 and check off each suggestion on the bulletin . Can’t find any problem, I even try a different Ethernet cable and it didn’t make any difference. I notice that CNC12 has locked up the computer screen. I reboot the computer and still no connection. I reboot acorn and everything comes back to life. The only thing I changed was the water cooler so I go into the wizard and turn off that relay.
Lets try this again, this time everything worked and the machine ran for 27 minutes completing the entire cutting program. WOW this great.
So lets try the finishing program, that has to run for 2 hrs. 55 minutes in to the program it shuts down.. It always says limit tripped. It was late so I went to bed.
Haven’t started the machine today. Its always a surprise each time I turn on the power.
ShawnM
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CNC Control System Serial Number: 7804734C6498-0401191832
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by ShawnM »

Have you had a chance to swap out all the unshielded wire for shielded? Grounding only one end on your ground bus bar. I know you found some shielded wire in your OEM wiring that was not grounded but you didn't specify what those wires were for. Have you swapped out the wire on the leadshine drives yet? Checking for loose wires of course. Do you have ferrules on the wires or just the wire in the connector? Separating high and low voltage wire runs is a good idea. As you have probably read, bulletin 270 means noise in the system. Is your ethernet cable running near 220v lines?

Can you post a new, current pic of the system as it is right now so we can see your wiring and layout?
dweber
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Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by dweber »

Success I think! I felt I had covered my bases following Shawn's experience and suggestions. So I tried to think out side the box (my cabinet being the box) After many years of being a job superintendent for commercial buildings I remembered we always had dedicated power supply for computers because of the noise in normal wiring. So I looked for a receptacle on a different circuit breaker than the one I was using now. I started the computer and acorn and all was as it should be. Everything started perfectly. I started a cut program that would require a 30 minute cut, then a 2hr cut, another 30 minute cut and finish off with a 10 minute cut. I made this part twice and both times it came out as perfect as it ever has in the past.(maybe even better)
20210504_215935.jpg
As I get used to the machine again I can see I will want to change some of the home travel speeds and a few default settings. I hope Shawn will continue to help me with that. But for now I am happy things are working and have my fingers crossed things will continue to.
I was teasing Shawn I was going to send him these extra parts I took out of the machine. If I did he would probably never talk to me again.(LOL) :lol:
20210504_150157.jpg
Again I would like to say thank you to all who helped me.
Dave
ShawnM
Posts: 424
Joined: Fri May 24, 2019 8:34 am
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CNC Control System Serial Number: 7804734C6498-0401191832
Location: Clearwater, FL

Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by ShawnM »

Glad you seem to have the bugs worked out Dave, this time. You can see how noise can really be a problem with the system and have you chasing your tail. Proper grounding is a must with CNC control. We talked briefly about your incoming 220v power feed to the router but not your PC power source. Since your router is 220v I assumed the PC was in a standard 110v outlet in your shop/garage. Not sure how they could “share” the same breaker unless your PC is running off the same 220v feed. Maybe the ground on that receptacle your PC was in is lose. I never asked where you had the PC plugged into either. If the incoming 220v wire is only 3 conductor this can be a problem. The proper way to power the system is with 12/3 (4 conductor) wire, not 3 conductor. Again, with a Chinese I electrical cabinet anything goes with their grounding and wiring. Another reason Gary stated he replaces EVERYTHING.

Those terminal blocks are great Dave and have a place in your system cabinet, just not spliced in the middle of your shielded signal wire going from your DB25 breakout board and your stepper drives. :mrgreen:

Let me know what changes you want to make to the control and we can work through it together.
dweber
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2021 8:39 pm
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Re: retro fit Laguna/RichAuto

Post by dweber »

Sorry I didn't explain that very well. The 220 is a 3 wire feed. The pc is 110 volts and not the same circuit as the 220. I changed the pc from a 110v circuit to a different 110v circuit in my garage.
I did use ferrule connectors on all my wires, I bought a kit with tool and wire ends. One of my concerns was I would spill the kit and have 3500 pieces to sort. haha. I added 15 new grounds to shielded wires each one going directly to the ground bar, all connected with solder and heat shrink. I will have to grab a picture to post.
Dave
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