AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

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martyscncgarage
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by martyscncgarage »

AXYZ4008 wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:35 pm Hello All,

I have done some deep digging on upgrading my AXYZ 4008 control board and software (5x8 working bed with A1MC controller). I really like what I see from centroid. Seeing as I don't do high production sheet goods, I don't see much of a benefit with upgrading my steppers to servos...thus my problem. I wanted to go with the acorn control board, but it only has 4 controls for steppers. My machine has 5 steppers, 2 on the long x, 1 on the y, 1 on the z, and 1 for the tool change carousel.

I could probably do something like floor mount a tool change rack with a pneumatic controlled flip top lid as I want to preserve the open space at the back of my bed for milling long tables I can pass through the gantry. Being as this is more involved than simply tracing wires and hooking up the new control board, are there any suggestions/recommendations for making this set up work with 1. sticking with steppers 2. using the acorn board 3. keeping my tool change carousel.

Thanks for the input.

Doug
I would do that machine right....if you have a carousel tool changer then make it work... or manually change the tools...then when you get tired of it, make the original carousel work...

My .02 :)
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
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AXYZ4008
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by AXYZ4008 »

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Okay okay. I will go down the rabbit hole. Just picked up a capable PC and am ordering everything tomorrow. Time for some fun.
martyscncgarage
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by martyscncgarage »

AXYZ4008 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:29 pm :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Okay okay. I will go down the rabbit hole. Just picked up a capable PC and am ordering everything tomorrow. Time for some fun.
Take it one step a time. Work on the bench test, setting up one drive and motor, then the others. Get the machine running and usable first. Then work on the tool changer. Start a build thread, create a Google Photo album and post a link to it.

Take it one step a time, We're here to help with suggestions when you get hung up.

So start the build thread and take good detailed pictures of your machine, including the ATC and under the "covers" pictures.

Best of luck!
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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mrp192
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by mrp192 »

I am about to get my 4004 going. Mine didn't come with a tool changer but I already have an idea on getting that going once everything is done.
AXYZ4008
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by AXYZ4008 »

Hello All,

Been a busy few weeks running the machine with no down time. Just getting around to everything now.

Bench test is done. Getting a motor to move is next. Disconnecting my current set up is makes me very nervous because then my machine is down. Yikes!

I purchased 5 Leadshine DM856 Stepper drives AND a DB25 male breakout board.

I have identified all of my outputs and inputs--and feel like I do not have nearly enough if I want to go the ATC and carousel route.

This is the plan:

1. Use the existing power supply from the AXYZ to power the drives/steppers. Wire BOTH X stepper drives (gantry has drives on both sides going in different directions) with the same DIR+PUL+ but reverse the wiring going to the motors for opposing direction (hardware pairing). Is my thinking correct here? This leaves me with the extra stepper do run the ATC carousel (5 steppers in total on this machine).

2. Initially I will leave the ATC/carousel alone but down the road will add it in. I will just manually change tools with the release collet button on the spindle.

3. The VFD is bothering me a bit because it has a different hook up than I am used to--I normally do the 0-10v analog signal to drive RPM. So I will need to reprogram that as well. Not a problem, just wish it was already set up like this.


Given all of this I need inputs for:
1. shaft stopped (from spindle)
3. tool present (from spindle)
4. tool not present (from spindle)

Outputs:
1. Air solenoid for spindle
2. spindle fwd
3. spindle reverse
4. drive enable
5. air solenoid to open carousel cover eventually

--I also have proximity sensors on the x, y, z, and tool carousel.

Here's a link to photos of the machine:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dZKNjUdSX353fW3U6
Attachments
IMG_20210628_191946.jpg
IMG_20210628_190924.jpg
IMG_20210628_190748.jpg
IMG_20210628_190734.jpg
IMG_20210628_190701.jpg
IMG_20210628_190656.jpg
IMG_20210628_190646.jpg
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9912
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by martyscncgarage »

It appears to me that you also need an Ether1616 board for more I/O because of the tool changer.
If you are making money/living with the machine, you need plan plenty of down time, especially if this is your first retrofit?
I would take the time sketch out all your wiring first before disconnecting anything.

Also, why have you chosen not to try and reuse the Pacific Scientific stepper drivers? I would have tried them first. They are already wired up. All you need to do is send them step, direction and a COM signal from the Acorn DB25. (Then if all else fails swap over to the new Leadshine drives you bought. That said, I am not that familiar with the PacSci drivers)

IF memory serves the AXYZ control uses a power supply board for DC voltages, but I think it has a transformer that could be reused with a bridge rectifier(s)? Can you take an overall picture of the control cabinet and post it?

Also, I think there is protection built onto the Emerson VFD that doesn't allow you to change the parameters, Emerson may be able to help you work around that. I don't think its currently controlled via a 0-10VDC analog signal from the control....

Gary Campbell might be able to shed a bit more light on this machine.
I bid on the opportunity to retrofit one of these machines but was not awarded the job by the school. Unsure what they ended up doing.

Also, check those proximity sensors, I think they were PNP, You could use them with an Optocoupler relay board like this one:
ANMBEST 2PCS 4 Channel 24V Relay Module with Optocoupler High or Low Level Trigger Expansion Board for Raspberry Pi Arduino
by Anmbest
Learn more:

You can feed your PNP inputs into it and then use the dry contacts to Acorn's inputs for homing the machine.

In a nutshell, do all your home work before you tear into the machine.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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Gary Campbell
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by Gary Campbell »

I have done a few AXYZ retrofits when I was on the road doing CNC service. A few words to the wise as they are not the easiest machines to decipher.

Remove all the wiring, personally I would replace everything but the spindle. (Includes VFD)

Get rid of all the proprietary interface boards on the machine and in the control box

You may be "secret coded" out of changing VFD parameters, rendering it useless

Those old PK299 motors are high inductance, replace them if you can, use high dc voltage drives (~75+) if you cant.

Run new limit switches and wiring (existing are PNP)

Use a newer style higher torque motor for the rotary carousel
GCnC Control
CNC Control & Retrofits
https://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1/videos
AXYZ4008
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by AXYZ4008 »

Hello All,

Thanks for the advice again...I would definitely agree AXYZ machines are not the easiest to decipher. They in fact went out of their way to make things as cryptic as possible. Thanks AXYZ.

There seems to be a lot different opinions on this machine. Sounds like I bit quite a large chunk off though ;(. To be honest, the machine is solid and it runs, but the z axis motion is terrible and the controller cannot really handle the g-code programs I am throwing at it. So, something has to be done.

I opted to switch to the leadshine stepper drives because the pacific's are very very rough. The motion is terrible. Don't even care about trying to get them to work.

I will definitely switch out the proximity sensors as there is no reason to mess with optocouplers if I don't need to.

I have never met a VFD I cannot reprogram. However, if push comes to shove I have a Yasakawa laying around somewhere I can repurpose that was used to drive same size spindle previously.

Things I WILL keep:
1. the motors for now. (Trying to budget limit this as it keeps magically growing)
2. the spindle.
3. the air solenoids.

vacuum pump and zero pins are manual currently and I will switch these over someday.

Things I WILL replace/remove:
1. stepper drives
2. VFD if needed
3. Proximity sensors (1 on the x, 1 on the y, 1 on the z, 1 on the carousel)
4. All proprietary interface boards

Things I will ADD:
1. conductive tool zeroing plate (one on the AXYZ is crap)
2. cross hair laser for part zeroing

I do need to figure out the power supply for the steppers and spindle (I have 208V, 240V, and 480V readily available). I will take some more detailed photos and would appreciate any advice on options.

Again, thank you all for your time and knowledge.

Doug J.
martyscncgarage
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by martyscncgarage »

Doug, you can keep the transformer but you will have to get a bridge rectifier. I believe Antekinc.com sells them.
Take the voltage reading at the stepper drive to see what voltage is being fed.

If its a nice machine, I'd probably replace with closed loop drives/motors. But I understand its a bunch of cable pulling and expense.
Keep us posted on your build. Create a google photo album and document with pictures. BE SURE TO FOLLOW GOOD WIRING PRACTICES.

MAKE SURE You get a good quality PC (NO LAPTOPS) meeting the Centroid Performance specs. It doesn't take much. Intel NUC is the first choice with solid state drives. https://www.centroidcnc.com/cnc_pc_perf ... ments.html

All Acorn information is here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397

I am attaching a document that I got from the VFD manufacturer. It *may* "help" you.
Marty
Attachments
AN0151 Commander SE_Security Code.pdf
(160.56 KiB) Downloaded 86 times
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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mrp192
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Re: AXYZ 4008 with tool change carousel...need some advice

Post by mrp192 »

I have a 4004. I put StepperOnline DM556. I am still working on my ATC but I am doing a style stepcraft is doing. As of right now it can have 12 or 13 tools.
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