Acorn (CNC12 works at bench test) but motors don't move

[cnckeith]

- follow the instructions and it works.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... guide.html
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
- post a question you'll get an answer
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043

- if you not happy send it back and i'll refund you. (ask for RMA before sending back, PM me) money back guarantee.

[martyscncgarage]

- follow the instructions and it works.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... guide.html
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
- post a question you'll get an answer
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043

- if you not happy send it back and i'll refund you. (ask for RMA before sending back, PM me) money back guarantee.

I'm holding a glimmer of hope that "Alice" will persevere and work though everything.....
Marty

[Richards]

When I'm writing a long post, I normally use a text editor such as Wordpad or VI if I'm sitting at a Linux station. I save the work in progress often. When I'm ready to post, I copy the text to the forum.

Building a CNC controller requires that we wear many hats. Before I bought my first Acorn, I watched Keith's videos. I watched Marty's videos. I watched Gary Campbell's videos. I watched Franco's videos. I looked at the computer requirements. I looked in my junk drawers and shelves to see if I had enough stepper motors, drivers and power supplies to run the Acorn. I even tested reactions on this forum by asking some really amateurish questions to see what the response would be. Then I followed the steps in the videos, step by step.

It's been a rewarding journey. There have been some head-scratching moments when I loaded new software or tried unfamiliar products, but that is part of building rather than buying.

One of the hats that I wear is that of a network consultant. (People hire consultants when they can't afford to pay someone full-time. The work that I do is specialized. I target small companies that need occasional help.) Usually I spend at least an hour a day on YouTube and visit various forums to stay current . A few months ago, I watched a video by MAICT Consult. The trainer's teaching technique is excellent. He lists the points that he is going to cover. He briefly explains why each point is essential. He shows how to implement each point using router software and then he physically crosses out the point, showing that he has done what he said he was going to do.

Making an ordered list helps with most projects. Adding testing steps for new or unfamiliar parts and pieces should be on that list. Even when I buy parts from trusted suppliers, I ALWAYS run tests on unfamiliar parts to verify that what I thought the spec sheet listed was what I verified in the testing. It takes time. It takes patience. But, I have never found a reliable shortcut. Most of the parts manufactured in China have done what I expected them to do; but I realize that I am the Quality Control Department.

One other thing that I do before starting a project is to run a Break Even Analysis Spreadsheet on the project. I list the cost of parts, the cost of labor (even if I'm not paying myself, I list the cost of paying someone else to do the job), the cost of maintenance and repair, the cost for tooling and materials. Then I run the numbers, adjusting here and there for the "what if" questions. I've done that process often enough that I'm rarely surprised. Usually, after running the numbers, I think things over for a few days. Some hobbies are too expensive. If I plan on using the project as part of a business, I check with enough shops to know what it should cost to make a part; after all, if I have to charge $100 for a part that others only charge $25 for, I'm not being either realistic or prudent.

We all do things differently. That's not where the problem lies. I think that the problem is sometimes glossing over important facts. For example, I just looked at Centroidcnc's DIY site to see whether the site clearly depicted the role of the Acorn. I believe that the Acorn was accurately represented. It seemed very clear to me that if I added up the price for power supplies, drives, motors, sensors, a computer, a display, a case, wiring, switches, and connectors that $1,500 would barely cover a basic system and that the cost could quickly approach $10,000 with top-notch servos. The Acorn makes it all possible.

[alice]

Sounds good Richards. I made a lot of those similar spreadsheet lists. I also made a few inquiries and postings and calls. That's mostly why I chose Centroid Acorn as the centerpiece of my system.

And, your right. "We all do things differently." So why then are we all (except the gurus) put in the same basket ?

BTW I don't have a junk drawer with much of anything in it. I had to buy all my motors, drives, ballscrews, etc. from scratch. I've even seen some spreadsheets on videos! But I guess I'm supposed to assume they are all "questionable". I guess I didn't want to insult anybody.

And I/we DID EXPECT that QC was a responsibility of a seller/vendor and we also did incoming inspections. Both. Those were the policies of corporations way up there and of customers too. I was not allowed to question those policies.

Actually there are some really big important standards organizations like IEEE, SAE, NEMA but I guess we should measure our NEMA 23's to make sure they conform. Is a hobbyist to do that too? Or are hobbyists all the same newbie DIYers getting the same *support* (even though we all do things differently) ? Where is the line? It seems absolute to lots of the gurus; so do say: where is that line? I don't know anymore. You seem t be an expert at this. Should I beep out a length of wire BEFORE I put it into a system. Maybe it was kinked or broken internally and is still outwardly ok-looking. That seems a little ridiculous but it begs the question: where is the line? According to who? What is their background. Are they the gold standard by which everyone else must comply or everyone else is doing it wrong ?

Are we having fun yet ?

I'm supposed to be retired.

and I get this from Keith: "- if you don't like it send it back and i'll refund you. (ask for RMA before sending back, PM me)"

Wow, what great *support* !

And then Marty writes: "I'm holding a glimmer of hope that "Alice" will persevere and work though everything....."

Hey Marty, YOU get my vote. I feel for you man. Thanks, really, thanks. That's the truth whether I continue on this road or not. You're tops.

But I'm beyond rote encouragement. At this point I'm not really sure what I'll do. I guess time will tell. Like Richards I'll have to "think things over for a few days" I can tell you this though: I will NOT rely on this PUBLIC forum for much (except for Marty). {{{ Hey Marty would you entertain a non-forum chat via standard emails }}} I had to work my way through my educational processes (it was discontinuous) many decades ago as a welder, Licensed Master Electrician, machinist (non-NC), a roofer, carpenter and a few other jobs (even as a ditch digger). Then I had to work my way up the corporate ladder (as the old saying goes) to the top of my profession (albeit not what ....[deleted], yup my delete key works; too.

I better quit now before anyone else tells me the same things all over again. Isn't that the definition of insanity? Lets see if that one blows back in my face.

[cnckeith]

i responded your private messages, i responded to your post, you seemed unhappy so in addition to providing free support i offered to refund your money. not sure what else i can do to make you happy.

we do offer the least expensive one on one CNC tech support in the industry for $90 per hour, users that are in a hurry or don't want to wait a few hours for a forum answer like to use this service we offer. you can purchase one on one tech support here..

https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... pport.html

[alice]

Well your last post does it for me.
That proverbial staw !
I've waited for answers on this forum. I'm not going to pay $90/hour for the same ...
Other said they hoped I'd persevere. Well that last reply just about takes care of all of that ...
BTW I never sent any private message. I don't even know how unless it was inadvertent. But lets move on from that. My bad.
I guess now I'll have to figure that (how to PM) out so I can get an RMA number.

[ShawnM]

So sorry you are planning to return the best DIY CNC controller on the market, You yourself stated that the issue is with the Chinese parts you bought, bad cables etc. I fail to see how this is a Centroid issue and why you complain to Centroid and us about product we have no control over. You had one axis working did you not? Then you discovered defective products from China, go figure, it happens a lot, you're not the first. Numerous people tired to help you and get you to go back to the basics and get one axis working and so on. All done on their own time for free. I wish you luck in your search to find the same free knowledge on this forum, wiring diagrams, videos and a manufacturer website chock full of information for another DIY controller. Let me save you the trouble, it doesn't exist. You stated you built 7 CNC machines so I'm baffled as to why the the eighth one was so hard for you to get working.

Good luck with your project.

[alice]

I'm baffled too.

The "not working" may or may not be a Centroid issue. At this point I don't know. Maybe they ARE perfect. I though they were just humans. What I do know is that I did not have these sorts of problems with my prior CNC systems. I do have one axis working on this system. I've beeped and beeped an beeped out all of this stuff. I have printed out pages and pages of schematics (from Centroid, Stepperonline and my own composites of those). There are no more errors in the wiring. I am confident of that. When I swap my "known-good" cables (motor & motor encoder) to either X or Y they go Bbrrppt and alarm out. I've re-soldered the errant cables and re-beeped the wires, the connectors and end-to-end. I have a digital multi-meter to test with. So I beeped from the motor ends to the drivers and from the drivers to the Acorn. On ALL terminal blocks. Everything is correct.

But they don't work so something is still wrong. What? The Acorn, the Stepperonline drives, something else ? I checked all the voltages in all the places that are on terminals. The software works, at least up to the point where I finish off the Reset and Home and get 0.0000 in all three onscreen DRO displays. Then I try X, Y or Z (both + and - and turtle and hare) jogging (for whichever axis I had my known good stuff attached to). The Z works but the X and Y never work. They just go Bbrrppt (sub_1_second & about 1 rev). I can restart the software and it won't even do that. (Until I power EVERYTHING down then back up to that same point again). If I move known working cables and motor to each axis the behavior is the same. Perhaps the drives are bad. Perhaps the errant original cable toasted the X & Y axes. Or perhaps the Acorn is not driving them correctly. Or perhaps there is some sort of interference or crosstalk. I un-bundled all wires (no change after that). But I am supposed to go backwards and start over again?

Should I shield more stuff ? Is something in the *typical* system sensitive to something else going on in this system? Why does Centroid insist on a shielded ethernet cable? You guys want me to swap out stuff but I only have the parts for this system. I don't have extra drives. I don't have multiple Acorns. It's looking like this is another rich mans play toy. This is NOT fun !!!!! And that it MY fault since I just thought (apparently mistakenly) that I could convert this mill and have a little fun in my retirement.

So why shouldn't I return "the best DIY CNC controller on the market"? Along with as much other stuff as possible ? Why should I beat my head bloody against the brick wall while being kicked in a private area ? That comment on a PUBLIC forum about the kicking and dancing REALLY REALLY turned me against this process. I don't do that. I started out just asking for some help. I jumped through all the prerequisite hoops and all I got were 'pat' suggestions and no solving answers. After all of the years and hundreds of successful systems I was expecting more definitive answers. The last program I worked on we had some PCBs with tens of millions of logic gates on them (large fpga's) and every single gate had to work correctly. We ran millions of test vectors. I'm very familiar with the process. What I'm not familiar with is what I had judged to be the best DIY CNC controller on the market but I'm down to nothing left to check and it still doesn't work. So, just because other people have gotten an Acorn_based system to work that doesn't mean this one is A-ok. Why would it not be prudent to get rid of as much of this stuff as possible?

I was willing to muddle through for a while longer but...

[martyscncgarage]

Just a suggestion before cashing in:

Could you disconnect the ALM wiring and the MF wiring temporarily.
Then make sure you have +5VDC or +24VDC going to each drive's:
+PU
+DR

and then make sure you have each drive's:
-PU going to ST1, ST2, ST3
-DR going to DR1, DR2, DR3

The power up the system but BEFORE starting CNC12, are the motor rotors locked or free? They should be locked.
Then start CNC12, RESET the control BUT not worrying about setting home (DRO's set to 0) and see if you can jog the motor using the buttons on the Virtual Control Panel
Let me know?

Marty

[ShawnM]

Before you quit, You said your Z axis works, yes? This means that one drive works, one motor cable works and one encoder cable works, still yes? Leave only that hooked up and working. Disconnect everything else from the Acorn. Do not change any wiring on the Acorn where you have the z axis working. Still working? Now simply swap the motor at the end of the cables and see if motor number two works, does it? Do the same with motor number three. Do all 3 motors work?

Now, back to working motor one, swap the working encoder cable to encoder cable number two, does it work? Swap out to number three encoder cable, does it work?

Now do the same with the motor cables, do all three work?

Now do the same with all three drives, do all three work?

Now take one known good drive, motor cable and encoder cable and try it on another axis on the Acorn, does it work?

Make sure all your wizard settings are the same for all 4 axis in the wizard.

Report back and post screen shots of your wizards settings, all pages.