Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

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Hjavaher
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Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by Hjavaher »

Hi everyone,
I have a stationary Chinese tool touch off sensor (https://s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/HTB1AZi6N ... kSXXan.jpg) and a probe (https://hallmarkdesign.co.nz/probe) connected to my acorn. I'm very much confused as to how to calibrate both of these guys. My Z Reference is set whenever I home the machine (is this a good way since I have very rigid hard stop homing using my clearpath servos?) since I have parameter 3 bit 1 set.

I know the height of the stationary tool touch off is 72mm, but I don't know the exact trigger height (presumably 0.001in) but am not sure how to measure it to make sure.

Right now I'm using the tool touch off to measure the probe and set the offset, I then use a precision 123 block to establish how far away from 1 in the probe measures and then adjust the height offset of the probe until it registers as close to 1in I can get it.

I'm sure this is wrong and that there is a way better more precise way of calibrating these guys but I can't find any info on the topic. Can anyone help me out and point me to the right direction?

Thank you in advance,
Hiva
CNCMaryland
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by CNCMaryland »

I use the same Tool Touch Off. I use my Z Home as the Z reference. Then I just measure each tool. The height of the tool setter is irrelevant. Trigger height is irrelevant as well, as each tool is measured the same way. (The probe is a different story, but lets work on 1 thing at a time.)

Regarding Parameter 3 - I'm not sure you're understanding how the Bits work. A "1" value means it will Reset upon job Completion. Probably not what you want. I have mine set to "0" - this will keep the tool heights until you remeasure them.

That is all for the tool height setter.

As far as the probe and its height, I just measure it off the tool setter with no thought about the trigger height. I guess there is some variance in there, but there is a lot to consider. For example, the tool height setter, in theory has some trigger height that is now built into the tool heights for all tools. And when you measure the probe, its actually the probe trip that becomes the trigger. Getting down to splitting hairs. I would say if that level of precision is needed, I would bring in the Haimer and measure against that.

More important for the probe is the left/right/front/back trigger, which can be done with a known bore size, and adjusting the probe tip diameter to compensate for the trip.
n2xd
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by n2xd »

Could you please tell me how you have your Hallmark probe wired to the Acorn? Thanks.

John
martyscncgarage
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by martyscncgarage »

Take the time to read the Centroid Probe Setup Guide:
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _setup.pdf

Consider Swissi's Probe App:
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4973

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
swissi
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by swissi »

Hjavaher wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:48 am I have a stationary Chinese tool touch off sensor (https://s.alicdn.com/@sc01/kf/HTB1AZi6N ... kSXXan.jpg) and a probe (https://hallmarkdesign.co.nz/probe) connected to my acorn. I'm very much confused as to how to calibrate both of these guys. My Z Reference is set whenever I home the machine (is this a good way since I have very rigid hard stop homing using my clearpath servos?) since I have parameter 3 bit 1 set.
CNCMaryland wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 3:17 am Regarding Parameter 3 - I'm not sure you're understanding how the Bits work. A "1" value means it will Reset upon job Completion. Probably not what you want. I have mine set to "0" - this will keep the tool heights until you remeasure them.
Trying to clear up the confusion that the two statements above could cause. Hjavaher is talking about setting BIT 1 of parameter 3 while CNCMaryland is talking about the actual value of Parameter 3 which is NOT the same thing.

Here's the help text from the ProbeApp about this parameter which is just a copy from the CNC12 Mill User Guide:

par3.PNG

As you can see to set BIT 1 of Parameter 3 you have to add 2 to the VALUE of Parameter 3 and this will make the Z-Home position the Fixed Reference Height from which all Tool Height Offsets will be measured.

What CNCMaryland is talking about the VALUE of Parameter 3 being 0 or 1 is actually setting the BIT 0 of Parameter 3 On or Off. Now if BIT 0 is On or Off doesn't really matter much in my opinion as every job file that requires Tool Height Offset compensation will take care of turning the compensation On or Off when needed with a G43/G49 command. So even when you set Bit 0 to 1 and the Tool Height Compensation resets after the job has finished, when you run the job again, the tool height compensation should be turned On again.
Hjavaher wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:48 am I know the height of the stationary tool touch off is 72mm, but I don't know the exact trigger height (presumably 0.001in) but am not sure how to measure it to make sure.
As CNCMaryland said, the pre-travel distance along the Z-axis for both, the Touch Probe and the Tool Setter is almost nothing and is usually negligible. You can test the pre-travel of the Tool Setter by placing a dial indicator on the side of the touch off plate and zero it out. Then use a tool to touch off on the tool setter. The dial indicator will show you how much the touch plate went down before it triggered. Based on my tests, this is usually just a couple of 1/1000 of a millimeter and if you think this matters on your machine you most likely kidding yourself :D

To find the exact height of your tool setter, just place it on the machine table and use the Touch Probe to set WCS Z0 on top of the tool setter. Then measure the height of your machine table with the Touch Probe and the DRO Z value will tell you the exact height you should enter.

If you use the Touch Probe to touch off the top of the Tool Setter, it will be the device that has the lower spring force that will create the trip signal but it doesn't really matter which device creates the trip signal as long as you have both devices connected. For those who can only connect one probing device at a time, you need to find out which of the two devices has less spring force and then connect that device when you use the TP to touch off on the TT. You can test that by placing the TP on top of the TT by hand and slightly press down. The device that moves must be the device connected.
Hjavaher wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:48 am Right now I'm using the tool touch off to measure the probe and set the offset, I then use a precision 123 block to establish how far away from 1 in the probe measures and then adjust the height offset of the probe until it registers as close to 1in I can get it.
What the heck are you doing??? :D
You are a supporter and you do have the ProbeApp that should do all of this for you. Are you not using the ProbeApp or do you not know how to use it? If it's the latter, please post your questions in the ProbeApp thread so I can answer it for the benefit of all ProbeApp users.

Just to circle back to the answer that CNCMaryland provided regarding the setting of the Tool Height Offsets. His answer is not wrong but it is only correct if your machine fulfills certain conditions. The subject of setting Tool Height Offsets correctly can be very confusing as it depends on the type of machine and tool holding you have. That's why I have written the ToolOffsetter Module in the ProbeApp to make that much easier.

You did never mention what type of machine and tool holding you have so giving instructions on how to setup tool height offsets without this knowledge is just not possible and could be misleading.

The Version 2 of the ProbeApp has now a ToolOffsetter Module which has a Guides Setup that automagically configured all settings needed based on the answers given to the setup questionnaire. At the end of the Guided Setup an instruction sheet is being provided showing which Probing Cycle should be used based on machine type and tool holding.

As I said above, run the Guided Setup of the ToolOffsetter in the ProbeApp and if you have any questions, post them HERE

-swissi
If you are using Fusion 360, check out my CNC12 specific Post Processor
If you are using a Touch Probe, Tool Touch Off Device or a Triple Corner Finder Plate, check out my ProbeApp

Contact me at swissi2000@gmail.com
tuffduck
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by tuffduck »

Hi, this helped me and the ProbeApp works great!
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4973&start=10
Start at the 4th message down the page.
cnckeith
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by cnckeith »

every time you say "automagically", Gary gets a royalty. :-))
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
Hjavaher
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by Hjavaher »

swissi wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 2:47 pm You did never mention what type of machine and tool holding you have so giving instructions on how to setup tool height offsets without this knowledge is just not possible and could be misleading.

The Version 2 of the ProbeApp has now a ToolOffsetter Module which has a Guides Setup that automagically configured all settings needed based on the answers given to the setup questionnaire. At the end of the Guided Setup an instruction sheet is being provided showing which Probing Cycle should be used based on machine type and tool holding.

As I said above, run the Guided Setup of the ToolOffsetter in the ProbeApp and if you have any questions, post them HERE

-swissi
Wow, Thank you for this detailed answer. I'm quite new to the CNC world and your expertises is immensely helpful!! I haven't had a chance to install the ProbeApp yet, I'm doing that tonight so I will definitely let you know when I do.

I have just converted a Precision Matthews PM 833 TV and I'm using the Tormach TTS system for it.

Again, thank you for all the help and thank you for clarifying the Parameter 3 wording, as a software developer myself (and surrounded by same), I tend to forget that I need be more clear about the wording. :D
Hjavaher
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by Hjavaher »

n2xd wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 9:31 am Could you please tell me how you have your Hallmark probe wired to the Acorn? Thanks.

John
Hi,
I just received my probe actually. I'm right now using a cheaper Chinese one from eBay. Both are the same in that they are Normally closed switches. ITTP uses a 5 pin DIN connector so I'm waiting on a female panel mount connector to use it.
Hjavaher
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Re: Chinese Tool Touch off and a Probe Calibration

Post by Hjavaher »

tuffduck wrote: Fri Dec 04, 2020 7:57 pm Hi, this helped me and the ProbeApp works great!
viewtopic.php?f=60&t=4973&start=10
Start at the 4th message down the page.
Thank you, I'll have a look
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