ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

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ozarkwoodworker
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

Hi Marty,

I was reading the "Acorn CNC12 v4.6 Acorn Wizard Input and Output “canned” PLC functions and M codes" documentation. I was looking at the "ToolUnclampButton" input. It seems that it would function the same way. I was trying the "TurnClampOn" output, but it doesn't seem to work with my lathe configuration. Unless I'm not understanding something properly.

Am I not setting this function up properly, or is there something else I could use to get a similar function?

Making a custom PLC modification would be ideal. Something called "ChuckButton" would be great, because I have a latching lighted button next to my headstock. This seems like a good idea for anyone.
martyscncgarage
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by martyscncgarage »

ozarkwoodworker wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:03 am Hi Marty,

I was reading the "Acorn CNC12 v4.6 Acorn Wizard Input and Output “canned” PLC functions and M codes" documentation. I was looking at the "ToolUnclampButton" input. It seems that it would function the same way. I was trying the "TurnClampOn" output, but it doesn't seem to work with my lathe configuration. Unless I'm not understanding something properly.

Am I not setting this function up properly, or is there something else I could use to get a similar function?

Making a custom PLC modification would be ideal. Something called "ChuckButton" would be great, because I have a latching lighted button next to my headstock. This seems like a good idea for anyone.
Centroid will not deviate from standard practice. The correct way to open and close a pneumatic collet closer, generally is to use a foot pedal. Press open, press closed.

You can try whatever you like, or you can hire someone to customize the PLC for you. Marc Leonard (cncsnw.com) or Centroid should be able to do it.
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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ozarkwoodworker
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

martyscncgarage wrote: Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:47 am Centroid will not deviate from standard practice.
Maybe I was misunderstood. I'm not trying to do anything that isn't standard practice. Every CNC lathe I've ever worked on and even manual lathe I've worked on with pneumatic collet closers have had a button, switch, or lever near the headstock to open and close the collet closer. I searched online, and I can't find a new CNC lathe being sold today with a pneumatic collet closer that doesn't have the same physical button or switch on the controls or near the headstock.

Many of the CNC lathes I've worked on did have foot pedal switches that operated exactly Centroid is set up now, but those were often sold as accessories. I have catalogs from Hardinge and others that show this practice going back to tape machines. The Hardinge lathe I'm putting Centroid on had a switch that operated the way I believe I described on it. I'm just trying to make it work again.

I thought I read somewhere that there is a virtual switch with this feature. If this is correct, why would asking for a physical one be out of the question?
martyscncgarage
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by martyscncgarage »

Why not replace the foot pedal with the desired switch then?
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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cnckeith
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by cnckeith »

In general any input on the acorn can be activated by a physical switch or a VCP button. Both at the physical switch and VCP button can be used independently or in conjunction to trigger an input.

VCP manual.
https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... manual.pdf
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
ozarkwoodworker
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

martyscncgarage wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 1:57 pm Why not replace the foot pedal with the desired switch then?
I don't have a foot pedal on the Hardinge lathe I'm adding Centroid to. I only have a switch by the headstock. It is a simple single pole on/off switch. That is what I'm trying to make work again.

The way that I understand that Centroid is currently set up on the inputs and outputs, I would have to basically double tap the switch to make the collet closer toggle on and off.
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by cnckeith »

stock functionality.

A common Hydraulic chuck configuration has two hydraulic lines going to the chuck. One line opens the chuck the other closes the chuck. Typically there are two solenoids controlled by dedicated outputs. The Acorn CNC setup Wizard calls these outputs ‘OpenChuck’ and ‘CloseChuck’.
The Open Chuck button on VCP activates the Open Chuck output for a user specified amount of time in milliseconds and is specified by editing parameter
#992. The VCP Close Chuck button activates the Close Chuck output for a user specified amount of time typically milliseconds and is parameter #992. The
VCP button is Spindle Interlocked so that when the spindle is ON the VCP buttons do not function. Also when the timer is running the spindle will not turn on
until timer is finished. Timers are typically required with hydraulic chucks so the chuck clamps at a consistent force and so solenoids do not over heat. Note:
Typically hydraulic chucks do not require the solenoid to be on to hold the part the hydraulic pressure holds when the solenoid valve is closed.
The Open Chuck and Close Chuck output can also be activated by the foot pedal Acorn input. The single Foot pedal toggles between open and closed each
time users steps on it. Example: Step on pedal and that activates the Chuck Close output for a user specified amount of time (in milliseconds and is
parameter #992), Step on the foot pedal again and the Foot Pedal activates Chuck Open for a user specified amount of time (in milliseconds and is parameter
#992 ) Foot pedal functionality is interlocked with the spindle and is deactivated when spindle in ON. Also, spindle will not turn on until the timers are finished.
Foot Pedal works with or without a the Chuck Open and Chuck Closed VCP buttons
M10 will also activates the “OpenChuck” output for the users specified amount of time. M11 activates the “CloseChuck” output for the users specified amount
of time.
An optional LowPressure input indicates to CNC12 that the pressure is absent or too low to activate the collet closer and CNC12 will not allow a job to run until
the Low Pressure warning has been cleared.

if you want something different you can edit the PLC program to your requirements or hire someone to do it for you. :-))
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
ozarkwoodworker
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by ozarkwoodworker »

Thanks Keith, but I've been referring to a pneumatic Dunham collet closure.

"Air operated collet systems typically have two air lines going to either side of a piston to actuate the collet chuck. Air pressure to one air line (one
side of the piston) closes the chuck. Air pressure to the other air line (the other side of the piston) opens the chuck. Typically only one single pull double throw air solenoid is used and that solenoid requires only one Output from the Acorn."

I need to toggle this one Output On and Off with a simple toggle or On-Off switch.

From the documentation provided, the only way to toggle Output "ColletOpenClose" is with the "ChuckFootPedal" Input in the Wizard. With a single pole latching switch, this requires the operator to switch to OFF, then switch to On, then switch to Off again, and then switch it on again to get ready to switch it off next time to simply open and close the collet closer Once.

Editing the PLC isn't a problem. I was just suggesting that a single On-Off Input to control a single On-Off Output makes sense, and is the way it is on every pneumatic collet closure I've ever seen on a lathe. Even before they were CNC they had simple lever operated switches on the headstock to open and close the collets. This is a very old and standard practice.
Gary Campbell
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by Gary Campbell »

Have you checked out a dual solenoid switch? It might be just what you need
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Re: ColletOpenClose vs. OpenChuck Outputs

Post by cnckeith »

hi, not sure where the confusion is..we have Dunham's running with the stock Acorn functionality as outlined in the documentation..

1.) Air operated Collet Systems: “Dunham” style https://www.dunhamtool.com/air-closers/
Discussion: Air operated collet systems typically have two air lines going to either side of a piston to actuate the collet chuck. Air pressure to one air line (one side of the piston) closes the chuck. Air pressure to the other air line (the other side of the piston) opens the chuck. Typically only one single pull double throw air solenoid is used and that solenoid requires only one Output from the Acorn.
An “Collet Open/Close” button on VCP is a toggle button that toggles the Collet Open Close output to the opposite state. (ON or OFF) The VCP Collet Open Close button is “spindle interlocked” and is disabled when spindle in ON.
The “Collet Open Close” output can also be activated by a foot pedal Acorn input. The Foot pedal is just like the VCP button, it toggles the Collet Open Close output from open to close or close to open each time you depress the foot pedal. Foot pedal functionality is deactivated when spindle in ON. Foot Pedal works with or without a “Collet Open/Close” VCP button
M10 will also activate the “Collet Open Close” output. M11 deactivates the “Collet Open Close” output.
An optional LowAirPressure input indicates to CNC12 that the Air pressure is absent or too low to activate the collet closer and CNC12 will not allow a job to run until the Low Air Pressure warning has been cleared
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
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