Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

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martyscncgarage
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Upnorth wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:16 pm I had weird issues with that exact VFD. A sunfar 550. I had a lot of electrical noise issues. Random estops. Drawbar software crashes. Other miscellaneous problems. I put in a GS-2 VFD from Automation Direct and all the issues went away.
I like Automation Direct GS2 and GS3 drives. I have tried and had good luck "So Far" with TD200 series drives from Factorymation.com as well.
On my 4th one now.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Arthur
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by Arthur »

Upnorth wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:16 pm I had weird issues with that exact VFD. A sunfar 550. I had a lot of electrical noise issues. Random estops. Drawbar software crashes. Other miscellaneous problems. I put in a GS-2 VFD from Automation Direct and all the issues went away.
Thanks for your input. I am leaning towards replacing my VFD, just waiting for last word from it's manufacturer. Apparently it has a defective input circuitry.

Best,
Arthur
Arthur
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by Arthur »

Update on my troubleshooting incase if any one wants to pick thing or two from it.

Sunfar E550 VFD Ai (analog input) test conducted.

Test #1

Disconnected analog speed control cable from Sunfar E550 VFD and connected Acorn PLC speed control output to DMM.

Note: X1, X2, X3, X4 & CM terminals connected to Acorn PLC Outputs via relay circuitry
F0.00 parameter set to 1, F0.02 set to 1001

1. Set spindle speed on CNC12 VCD to 24000 RPM, clicked on Spindle Cycle Start button and DMM reading was 10.1 Volts.
2. Reduced spindle speed on VCD to 20000 RPM – reading was 8.01 Volts
3. Reduced spindle speed on VCD to 15000 RPM – reading was 6.1 Volts
4. Reduced spindle speed on VCD to 12000 RPM – reading was 5.02 Volts
5. Reduced spindle speed on VCD to 6000 RPM – reading was 2.4 Volts

This test confirmed that Acorn PLC is functioning properly and adjusts voltage on analog speed control terminal according to my calculations 10 Volts : 24000 RPM = 0.00041 Volt/Rev.

Test #2

Disconnected analog speed control cable from Acorn PLC and applied 3.7 V DC using rechargeable battery to Ai input of Sunfar E550 (negative lead to the ground and positive to Ai terminal) Spindle span at considerably lower RPM instead of calculated 9000 RPM (3.7v/0.00041) and the display reading of D-0.7 parameter on Sunfar E550 was 18.5

The jumper of Ai input terminal was set to V position.

Test #2 Proved that Sunfar E550 VFD is not reacting to speed control value supplied by Acorn PLC therefor determined to have faulty Ai input circuitry and it introduces some sort of variable frequency (45kHz 125kHz 250kHz) electrical noise into Acorn PLC causing convulsive Y-master and slave Axis movement.

Otherwise, Sunfar E550 works fine controlled by its keypad.
cut2cut
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by cut2cut »

Hi Arthur, You are not crazy. I've spent the last couple weeks trying to figure out why the same brand and model VFD has been causing me grief. I wish I had come across your post sooner. Basically I did everything you did to try solve it. I even rewired my complete electronics cabinet because of all the noise being back fed from the VFD to the Acorn and also causing my DYN4 servo motors to jitter and causing servo run away. Previously everything worked fine with my old VFD. Rewiring helped but did not solve everything, the silver lining, having this POS VFD has illuminated some poor wiring practices and forced me to clean it up. I was able to get rid of the jitter and runaway issues, but I haven't been able to control the speed via the acorns 0-10v analog output because the spindle acts like a car with a "miss" coughs and sputters as I increase the rpm, never reaching full rpm. All works properly if I use the VFD's built in potentiometer to control speed OR a 9v battery with a potentiometer on the "external" inputs on the VFD.
It appears the Sunpar / Simpheonix E550 is the problem. So..... thank you ! I might have spend two more weeks struggling if I hadn't read your post on this issue ! ( btw, I also have a Jianken spindle )

Jake
Last edited by cut2cut on Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
martyscncgarage
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by martyscncgarage »

Hence my hesitation to use such VFD's. You never know the quality of the drive on a given day.
GS series from Automationdirect.com, and most recently, the TD series I used on 4 machines from factorymation.com.
I have a strong distasted for TECO units.

The ONE import drive I can say I have had reasonable success with is the HUAN YANG GT series or HY series. BUT they are too cheap to install braking resistor circuits (not really needed on a router) so you have to ask for them. They are so popular, that even the Chinese knock them off. Amazon is a good place to buy them and make sure HY or Huan Yang is the seller. They have gone out of their way to support the drive. I also buy 2x the capacity if a CNC application. So buy double the HP drive that you need....even HY recommends this for CNC Application and the cost is not that much more.
Do this especially if you have say a 5hp application and want to use the drive on single phase. Buy the 10hp drive. Somehow they run on single phase.....in the end, you get what you pay for. Customer machines never get import drives.

Just my .02 on the matter.....
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cut2cut
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by cut2cut »

Thanks Marty, I'll give the Huan Yang a try. My limitation of single phase 220v supply really restricts my VFD options for a 4.2kw spindle. The only really good quality VFD for a 4.2kw spindle is a $1380 GS4-2020 from Automation Direct.

Jake
martyscncgarage wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am Hence my hesitation to use such VFD's. You never know the quality of the drive on a given day.
GS series from Automationdirect.com, and most recently, the TD series I used on 4 machines from factorymation.com.
I have a strong distasted for TECO units.

The ONE import drive I can say I have had reasonable success with is the HUAN YANG GT series or HY series. BUT they are too cheap to install braking resistor circuits (not really needed on a router) so you have to ask for them. They are so popular, that even the Chinese knock them off. Amazon is a good place to buy them and make sure HY or Huan Yang is the seller. They have gone out of their way to support the drive. I also buy 2x the capacity if a CNC application. So buy double the HP drive that you need....even HY recommends this for CNC Application and the cost is not that much more.
Do this especially if you have say a 5hp application and want to use the drive on single phase. Buy the 10hp drive. Somehow they run on single phase.....in the end, you get what you pay for. Customer machines never get import drives.

Just my .02 on the matter.....
Marty
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9107
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by martyscncgarage »

cut2cut wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:05 pm Thanks Marty, I'll give the Huan Yang a try. My limitation of single phase 220v supply really restricts my VFD options for a 4.2kw spindle. The only really good quality VFD for a 4.2kw spindle is a $1380 GS4-2020 from Automation Direct.

Jake
martyscncgarage wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am Hence my hesitation to use such VFD's. You never know the quality of the drive on a given day.
GS series from Automationdirect.com, and most recently, the TD series I used on 4 machines from factorymation.com.
I have a strong distasted for TECO units.

The ONE import drive I can say I have had reasonable success with is the HUAN YANG GT series or HY series. BUT they are too cheap to install braking resistor circuits (not really needed on a router) so you have to ask for them. They are so popular, that even the Chinese knock them off. Amazon is a good place to buy them and make sure HY or Huan Yang is the seller. They have gone out of their way to support the drive. I also buy 2x the capacity if a CNC application. So buy double the HP drive that you need....even HY recommends this for CNC Application and the cost is not that much more.
Do this especially if you have say a 5hp application and want to use the drive on single phase. Buy the 10hp drive. Somehow they run on single phase.....in the end, you get what you pay for. Customer machines never get import drives.

Just my .02 on the matter.....
Marty
That is a LARGE spindle. If you are going to go the HY route, get the GT series 10hp and give it a try.
There are VFD's that if you double their rating may let you slide by with running single phase.
Good luck.
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cut2cut
Posts: 74
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 3:02 am
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by cut2cut »

martyscncgarage wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:03 pm
cut2cut wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:05 pm Thanks Marty, I'll give the Huan Yang a try. My limitation of single phase 220v supply really restricts my VFD options for a 4.2kw spindle. The only really good quality VFD for a 4.2kw spindle is a $1380 GS4-2020 from Automation Direct.

Jake
martyscncgarage wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 10:54 am Hence my hesitation to use such VFD's. You never know the quality of the drive on a given day.
GS series from Automationdirect.com, and most recently, the TD series I used on 4 machines from factorymation.com.
I have a strong distasted for TECO units.

The ONE import drive I can say I have had reasonable success with is the HUAN YANG GT series or HY series. BUT they are too cheap to install braking resistor circuits (not really needed on a router) so you have to ask for them. They are so popular, that even the Chinese knock them off. Amazon is a good place to buy them and make sure HY or Huan Yang is the seller. They have gone out of their way to support the drive. I also buy 2x the capacity if a CNC application. So buy double the HP drive that you need....even HY recommends this for CNC Application and the cost is not that much more.
Do this especially if you have say a 5hp application and want to use the drive on single phase. Buy the 10hp drive. Somehow they run on single phase.....in the end, you get what you pay for. Customer machines never get import drives.

Just my .02 on the matter.....
Marty
That is a LARGE spindle. If you are going to go the HY route, get the GT series 10hp and give it a try.
There are VFD's that if you double their rating may let you slide by with running single phase.
Good luck.
Marty

I'm assuming that if the VFD is undersized, the result, when pushed too hard, will be VFD faults causing loss of spindle power. With a resulting crash if movement isn't stopped immediately by acorn ( cnc control ) ? I'm assuming all VFD's have protective failsafes to protect themselves from "burning" up instead of continuing to drive an oversized motor under too large a load ( too big a cut at max RPM, etc ).

Yeah, its a large water cooled ATC spindle. Overkill.... hopefully I can use the 24rpm spindle at lower speeds and get away with it being over powered for my needs. I'm kind of amazed how small the motor leads are. I think on the order of 15 gauge....

p.s. yes, thank you. I ordered the 10hp HuanYang vfd from AMZ , to "give it a try". I am at a cross roads if I should order it with the braking circuitry, however. Also a bit worried about how noisy it might be compared to the GS4 from Automation Direct. Can't have everything for nothing..... I guess.

Thanks,

Jake
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9107
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by martyscncgarage »

cut2cut wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:00 pm
martyscncgarage wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 12:03 pm
cut2cut wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 3:05 pm Thanks Marty, I'll give the Huan Yang a try. My limitation of single phase 220v supply really restricts my VFD options for a 4.2kw spindle. The only really good quality VFD for a 4.2kw spindle is a $1380 GS4-2020 from Automation Direct.

Jake

That is a LARGE spindle. If you are going to go the HY route, get the GT series 10hp and give it a try.
There are VFD's that if you double their rating may let you slide by with running single phase.
Good luck.
Marty

I'm assuming that if the VFD is undersized, the result, when pushed too hard, will be VFD faults causing loss of spindle power. With a resulting crash if movement isn't stopped immediately by acorn ( cnc control ) ? I'm assuming all VFD's have protective failsafes to protect themselves from "burning" up instead of continuing to drive an oversized motor under too large a load ( too big a cut at max RPM, etc ).

Yeah, its a large water cooled ATC spindle. Overkill.... hopefully I can use the 24rpm spindle at lower speeds and get away with it being over powered for my needs. I'm kind of amazed how small the motor leads are. I think on the order of 15 gauge....

p.s. yes, thank you. I ordered the 10hp HuanYang vfd from AMZ , to "give it a try". I am at a cross roads if I should order it with the braking circuitry, however. Also a bit worried about how noisy it might be compared to the GS4 from Automation Direct. Can't have everything for nothing..... I guess.

Thanks,

Jake
No, if you ask more out of the VFD than it is capable of, it will fault.
If you are running a router, you unlikely need a brake. There is a certain amount of DECEL time you can program into the spindle before it will fault.
Always go with the worst case scenario which is its highest speed and take the weight of the tool into consideration.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
cut2cut
Posts: 74
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Re: Integrating Sunfar E550 with Acorn PLC

Post by cut2cut »

I ended up going with the GS4-2020 VFD from Automation Direct and cancelled the AMZ ordered HY VFD. Ultimately I just wanted a stout VFD that would work and work well ! Its huge and overkill for sure. I did, however experience a small amount of stuttering due to inadequate shielding so I ended up doing what the Gs4-2020 manual said to fix the issue completely ( see enclosed picture, and note, I have only done the first half, I have not used ferrite rings or a capacitor yet ) along with grounding the shield on the Acorn Analog output side too ( shield to Acorn DB9 connector body ) This resulted in a tiny fluctuation in the 0-10v signal ( about 0.1 Hz ) and a baseline of 0.7 Hz ( I can adjust the analog offset via the VFD to result in a baseline frequency to 0.00 HZ. )

The result is very acceptable for me so I'm happy with the result. I plan to make a new thread with what I've experienced wrt grounding and shielding, maybe it'll be helpful to others. This was a real "learning" experience that took longer than I'd like to admit !

Cheers,

Jake
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Last edited by cut2cut on Sat Feb 06, 2021 3:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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