Plasma Version of CNC12 Wish list

All things related to the Centroid Acorn CNC Controller

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legacytorch
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Plasma Version of CNC12 Wish list

Post by legacytorch »

Keith made the invitation for a plasma wish list in this thread viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2071&hilit=thc
cnckeith wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:50 pm What is on your plasma wish list?
please be as descriptive as possible when describing the CNC functionality that you are after for your plasma table.
I'll take your input and do my best to add the functionality/feature into Acorn CNC12!
I have had the acorn powered machine operating for a year now and it has been working great but there are some things I would really like to see in a future version.

1) Torch height control or THC. I never did have this even when running MACH3 but it would be really nice to have it as an option. I agree with planning around the Proma 150 as it seems to be somewhat of a standard. I know that there are stand alone options available now but software integration seems to be a much better route.

2) Show the target and actual travel speed on the virtual control panel. I know the relative percentage is shown but I'm never quite sure of what 110% or whatever is because it changes based on my post processor. Sometimes its nice to be able to recut a piece with different thickness material from the same gcode and I don't want to run the CAM post again. It would be great to have a quick visual inchs per minute indicator so I could see what the percentage actually means.

3) It would be good to independently be able to control the cut speed and the travel speed while running. Specifically It would be nice to be able to quickly alter the speed of travel between cuts while the gcode is running. For example, if I have a number of small cuts very close to one another the table will attempt to move very quickly between them and it can get very violent. Sometimes a speed that otherwise has worked well on projects in the past get really jumpy on another. I know that this can be done in the CAM but I don't always do everything perfect in setup and sometimes it is nice to just be able to compensate on the fly.

4) This may just be me and maybe it can already be done easily and I just don't know it... I would like to be able to set run time graphics to default on. I always use it and I don't like having to always turn it on. It especially sucks when I forget and the program is running.

5) The real world is never perfect and especially not plasma cutting. It is quite common to loose an arc for whatever reason. It would be amazing to be able to visually select a point on screen or jog to a location and run the gcode from there (or in the case of jogging which is imprecise, start from the nearest codded location). Going line by line can be really tedious. Also sometimes on nested cuts I would like to recut only a specific element or part.

6) This may also just be me but I'll ask anyway. I would like to have the option natively to control outputs simultaneously with gcode and manually. Normally plasma systems run fully automatic, and this is good when things are perfect but in our operation sometimes we are doing repairs or fabricating with less than perfect materials. We like to manually start the cut and then visually verify the pierce and then run the code. Then have the code automatically shut off the torch at the end of the cut, jog to the next spot and wait for the operator. I know this sounds slow but it is reliable and necessary in some circumstances. The Centroid Guys were able to set us up with some custom code that allows this but built in is always better. It also comes in handy when we switch to an oxy/fuel torch. This allows us to visually judge the preheat and toggle the cut on and off if it does not pierce. I know in a professional production line shop this would all be silly but we are far from production line.

7) Most plasma systems only need one output to control the cut. Many just seem to use the spindle controls to activate the torch. For our application using the oxy/fuel torch it is necessary to control two outputs for the cut. One for preheat and one for pierce. Dedicated virtual control buttons for these functions would be appreciated. Currently I use the flood and mist coolant buttons which are nice because they allow toggling with a single button and are visually somewhat appropriate. Like I said before though I had to have the plc code custom modified to make this work.

The most amazing thing to me is that for software that was never really designed for plasma these are the only things I could think of. We have been using it a year now and overall are very impressed with things. A few tweaks and it would be even better.

Thanks for the already great product and thanks in advance for the updates.
cnckeith
Posts: 3358
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Re: Plasma CNC12 Wish list

Post by cnckeith »

legacytorch wrote: Wed Mar 06, 2019 11:36 pm Keith made the invitation for a plasma wish list in this thread viewtopic.php?f=60&t=2071&hilit=thc
cnckeith wrote: Tue Oct 02, 2018 1:50 pm What is on your plasma wish list?
please be as descriptive as possible when describing the CNC functionality that you are after for your plasma table.
I'll take your input and do my best to add the functionality/feature into Acorn CNC12!
I have had the acorn powered machine operating for a year now and it has been working great but there are some things I would really like to see in a future version.

1) Torch height control or THC. I never did have this even when running MACH3 but it would be really nice to have it as an option. I agree with planning around the Proma 150 as it seems to be somewhat of a standard. I know that there are stand alone options available now but software integration seems to be a much better route. << in the planing stages >>

2) Show the target and actual travel speed on the virtual control panel. I know the relative percentage is shown but I'm never quite sure of what 110% or whatever is because it changes based on my post processor. Sometimes its nice to be able to recut a piece with different thickness material from the same gcode and I don't want to run the CAM post again. It would be great to have a quick visual inchs per minute indicator so I could see what the percentage actually means. << distance to Go is available in upcoming v4.14>>>

3) It would be good to independently be able to control the cut speed and the travel speed while running. Specifically It would be nice to be able to quickly alter the speed of travel between cuts while the gcode is running. For example, if I have a number of small cuts very close to one another the table will attempt to move very quickly between them and it can get very violent. Sometimes a speed that otherwise has worked well on projects in the past get really jumpy on another. I know that this can be done in the CAM but I don't always do everything perfect in setup and sometimes it is nice to just be able to compensate on the fly. << Currently the Rapid Override button switches the Feed Rate overide control to include or exclude G0 (rapid) moves are you looking for something more than that? also you can set the cadcam system to not use G0 and then the feed rate overide will effect all moves in the program. on the jerkyness..that depends on many things.. had you tired using the "smoothing" feature? while its not the whole answer to smoothing out a machine it may help. >>>

4) This may just be me and maybe it can already be done easily and I just don't know it... I would like to be able to set run time graphics to default on. I always use it and I don't like having to always turn it on. It especially sucks when I forget and the program is running. << now a feature in v4.14>>

5) The real world is never perfect and especially not plasma cutting. It is quite common to loose an arc for whatever reason. It would be amazing to be able to visually select a point on screen or jog to a location and run the gcode from there (or in the case of jogging which is imprecise, start from the nearest codded location). Going line by line can be really tedious. Also sometimes on nested cuts I would like to recut only a specific element or part.

6) This may also just be me but I'll ask anyway. I would like to have the option natively to control outputs simultaneously with gcode and manually. Normally plasma systems run fully automatic, and this is good when things are perfect but in our operation sometimes we are doing repairs or fabricating with less than perfect materials. We like to manually start the cut and then visually verify the pierce and then run the code. Then have the code automatically shut off the torch at the end of the cut, jog to the next spot and wait for the operator. I know this sounds slow but it is reliable and necessary in some circumstances. The Centroid Guys were able to set us up with some custom code that allows this but built in is always better. It also comes in handy when we switch to an oxy/fuel torch. This allows us to visually judge the preheat and toggle the cut on and off if it does not pierce. I know in a professional production line shop this would all be silly but we are far from production line. < not quite sure what the request is for this one please clarify>>

7) Most plasma systems only need one output to control the cut. Many just seem to use the spindle controls to activate the torch. For our application using the oxy/fuel torch it is necessary to control two outputs for the cut. One for preheat and one for pierce. Dedicated virtual control buttons for these functions would be appreciated. Currently I use the flood and mist coolant buttons which are nice because they allow toggling with a single button and are visually somewhat appropriate. Like I said before though I had to have the plc code custom modified to make this work. << yeah we can do that!>>

The most amazing thing to me is that for software that was never really designed for plasma these are the only things I could think of. We have been using it a year now and overall are very impressed with things. A few tweaks and it would be even better.

Thanks for the already great product and thanks in advance for the updates.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
legacytorch
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:39 pm
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CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 985DAD489A3F-1215170079

Re: Plasma CNC12 Wish list

Post by legacytorch »

cnckeith wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:34 am 3) It would be good to independently be able to control the cut speed and the travel speed while running. Specifically It would be nice to be able to quickly alter the speed of travel between cuts while the gcode is running. For example, if I have a number of small cuts very close to one another the table will attempt to move very quickly between them and it can get very violent. Sometimes a speed that otherwise has worked well on projects in the past get really jumpy on another. I know that this can be done in the CAM but I don't always do everything perfect in setup and sometimes it is nice to just be able to compensate on the fly. << Currently the Rapid Override button switches the Feed Rate overide control to include or exclude G0 (rapid) moves are you looking for something more than that? also you can set the cadcam system to not use G0 and then the feed rate overide will effect all moves in the program. on the jerkyness..that depends on many things.. had you tired using the "smoothing" feature? while its not the whole answer to smoothing out a machine it may help. >>>
I would just like two visual speed indicators that I could control independently on the fly with an actual target speed readout and not just the relative percentage. Its nice to have the CAM get you in the ball park but I find lots or reasons to fine tune on the go. I'm not sure I have the terminology right... but independent control of the rapid and the cutting feed rate.
cnckeith wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:34 am 6) This may also just be me but I'll ask anyway. I would like to have the option natively to control outputs simultaneously with gcode and manually. Normally plasma systems run fully automatic, and this is good when things are perfect but in our operation sometimes we are doing repairs or fabricating with less than perfect materials. We like to manually start the cut and then visually verify the pierce and then run the code. Then have the code automatically shut off the torch at the end of the cut, jog to the next spot and wait for the operator. I know this sounds slow but it is reliable and necessary in some circumstances. The Centroid Guys were able to set us up with some custom code that allows this but built in is always better. It also comes in handy when we switch to an oxy/fuel torch. This allows us to visually judge the preheat and toggle the cut on and off if it does not pierce. I know in a professional production line shop this would all be silly but we are far from production line. < not quite sure what the request is for this one please clarify>>
Dedicated VCP buttons, and more buttons than a typical plasma system would require. One output doesn't work for us. Also for running in automatic mode it would be good to be able to tune the preheat and pierce dwell time on the fly.
Gary Campbell
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Re: Plasma CNC12 Wish list

Post by Gary Campbell »

I would just like two visual speed indicators that I could control independently on the fly with an actual target speed readout and not just the relative percentage.
[/i]


Cap't Obvious here..... Set the feedrate at 100ipm????
GCnC Control
CNC Control & Retrofits
https://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1/videos
legacytorch
Posts: 28
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Re: Plasma CNC12 Wish list

Post by legacytorch »

Gary Campbell wrote: Thu Mar 07, 2019 1:59 pm Cap't Obvious here..... Set the feedrate at 100ipm????
that's a good idea and I'll probably do it in the meantime. However, it still does not give me independent control.

He said wish so I'm wishing... I don't expect everything or anything to happen, but if you don't ask you don't get.
legacytorch
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:39 pm
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CPU10 or CPU7: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 985DAD489A3F-1215170079

Re: Plasma CNC12 Wish list

Post by legacytorch »

I have had some time to use a different plasma table than my one set up with an acorn. For not being designed for plasma cutting the centroid software does a good job. That being said there are a few features I would love to see show up on centroid software in the future.

1. A quick cut feature. Simple cut straight line from point A to point B, no cad drawing required.

2. Material squaring. Select two points on the work piece to calculate the angle and rotate the Gcode to compensate.

3. Manual drawing rotation. Sometimes its nice to be able to flip or rotate the drawing to fit into a piece of scrap material.
jcoldon
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Re: Plasma CNC12 wish list

Post by jcoldon »

What are you using for arc ok on the plasma using the acorn . im looking to put a neuron THC on acorn or oak . need an arc ok . Neuron wires direct to the z axis so it just needs spindle input to turn on the unit . a second input to turn on thc off thc . Its the arc ok i need a controller input to not start motion till it recives the input . and it that input is lost all motion will stop
Neuron does all the nessary plasma settings for the z axis ohmic torch slide pierce height cut height . and lots more .
cnckeith
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Re: Plasma Version of CNC12 Wish list

Post by cnckeith »

hi, i am resurrecting this thread as we are now back on Plasma version of CNC12 development.
to give you an update we have created our own THC unit that senses the Torch voltage and sends that information over a fiber optic cable isolation bridge and then into the Acorn encoder port with 12 bit resolution. CNC12 then knows the arc voltage very accurately and with great speed. (4000 times a second the voltage info is updated) . We are testing with an in house Forest Scientific Plasma table and a Hypertherm torch and are doing test cuts and data capture. The hardware is done and working now the plasma specific software development begins so this thread is a call for features that you need and features that you'd like to have. Thanks to legacy torch for kicking off the thread with lots of great suggestions.
here is a rough draft of the Acorn CNC12 Plasma UI for comment.
plasma skin rough draft 4-12-21.PNG
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
ShawnM
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Re: Plasma Version of CNC12 Wish list

Post by ShawnM »

This is great news about the progress. I have a Shop Sabre 5x10 plasma cutter that I'd love to switch over from WinCNC. It has a Hypertherm 85 plasma cutter. It's a decent setup with ClearPath motors/drives, ClearPath IPC5 power supply and the ClearPath Powerhub. The software is just not the best so an Acorn controlled plasma table would be the cat's meow. Keep up the great work Keith.
jcoldon
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Re: Plasma Version of CNC12 Wish list

Post by jcoldon »

First THC voltage needs Automatic Voltage Control
Description: If Voltage Control is ON, the torch height is controlled by the measured arc voltage.
If Voltage Control is OFF, the torch maintains a constant position during the cut that is
independent of the Arc Voltage.
Setting: OFF / ON
Sample and Hold Arc Voltage Mode
Description: The Voltage Control must be ON. When Sample Voltage is ON, the THC measures the voltage at the end of the AVC Delay or removing the Hold signal (from G-Code) and uses it as a set point for the remainder of the cut.
When Sample Voltage is OFF the Set Arc Voltage is used as the set point for torch height
control.
Setting: OFF / ON
then a manual thc mode were voltage is set manual to maintain cut height . a speed reaction setting on screen is needed
the normal IHS settings ohmic and float head needs 2 inputs and switch offset settings for each . so if ohmic fails float head takes over does IHS
that input needs to do anti collision mode once probing is complete . most of the time dun with a m31 for the ohmic set and float head offset settings set in the macro
using this anti collision on slide input allow use of the round mount like the robot 3 t
ohmic touch need a separate input so it can be disabled during cutting for water table
an air on mode to clear water were the torch fires on and off so fast all it triggers is the air .
you need a delay for THC on after the HIS lowers to cut height . once cutting thc auto voltage mode
and manual setting mode listed above . you need a on screen reaction setting for thc
if the cut stops you need a run from hear option or reverse cutting . a setting for turn off the torch before the m5 . in plasma that were the end of cut dink come from this way torch goes off mili sec before the end of the cut and x y axis still move till m5 .
Lockheed Down
Description: This feature avoids that the plasma torch moves down which arc voltage is up (for example on the end of cut, when crossing a kerf or hole or going off the edge of the plate). If the adjustable Lock Head Down Level exceeds the limit during cutting, the clearance control will be disabled.
Setting: OFF / ON
A 485 mode would be nice to the Hypertherm to remotely set amp settings from the controller
I’m going to send you the neuron light thc manual lots of good thc info that would be useful in developing a really good thc
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