Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

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benscale160
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Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by benscale160 »

My name is Ben Renard. After must dismay with the original controller I have decided to make the change to acorn. I am replacing the axis motors with Clearpath sdsk servos. Spindle is a 5hp ac motor with a vfd. So far I have the axis motors and spindle operating with the controller. The next big hurtle is getting the tool turret operating.

I would like to use the original turret encoder and 24vdc motor. I have seen several of people here use a stepper motor to operate the turret.

I have come across a couple of possible solitons that would allow me to use the original equipment but need some guidance to see if they can be adapted to run with centroid and acorn.

The first would be this

http://emcoturret.blogspot.com/2011/?m=1

I've been in contact with the developer and have requested info on how it interfaces with the computer. I think it can either use usb or serial to communicate with the computer. It was originally developed for Mach 3. It will also work for Mach 4 and lynex cnc. It wires up directly to the current turret encoder and DC motor. If this board can be made to be compatible with centroid, this would be my first choice.

Next possible solution I found was on the lynx CNC forum. It uses an arduino and motor controller and some other basic electronics. I beleive this again uses usb connected directly between the computer and arduino for communication.

https://forum.linuxcnc.org/26-turning/2 ... et-control

https://bgp.nu/~tom/pub/toolerator3000/

My issue is that I have very little knowledge of how to interface these devices to centroid if it is even possible.

Any help or suggestions are appriciated.

Thank you,
Ben Renard
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by cnckeith »

Ben, post some photos of the turret and a description of how it works.
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martyscncgarage
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by martyscncgarage »

cnckeith wrote: Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:22 am Ben, post some photos of the turret and a description of how it works.
Keith, I believe it is the same as the Emcoturn 120, unidirectional, uses a small DC motor to rotate it, has 4 opto sensors for gray logic.
I think Mario just finished the code for one of these.
I believe what Ben wants to do since Acorn is short in inputs, is off load the ATC to micro controller (Arduino in this case) Arduino just needs a signal from CNC12 In the Linux example, I think Linux CNC is sending that information via USB to the Arduino and waiting back for a response from the Microcontroller that it has completed the tool change.

I had a similar thought. The micro controller would control the ATC turret, it would also monitor the turret position via the optical sensors. It could also home the turret when commanded by CNC12. If CNC 12 could output pulses that correlate to the tool number, (i.e. 1 pulse equals tool 1, 2 pulses equals tool 2 etc) the micro controller could monitor that line, when it sees one pulse, it would rotate the turret to tool 1, 2 pulses it would rotate the turret to tool 2 etc. Once the move is complete, the microcontroller would make sure that the correct tool called is in position via the encoder. If OK it would send an output back to Acorn/CNC 12 stating the move has been completed. The G code would resume.

Clearly its much safer and cleaner that CNC12 handles the tool change. We're just trying to find a way around the lack of inputs on Acorn. The complexities of setting up the ATC exist one way or the other.

Marty
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benscale160
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by benscale160 »

Marty,

The turret is exactly as you describe.

I got a response back from Andrew and wanted me to run the basic operating principle of his board by you guys before he provided the technical details as to the specific protocols as to how his board interfaces with the PC.

"Hi Ben,

The serial communication is via that USB port you see. When you plug in my board and install the drivers, a COM port shows up in the system.

Each time a tool change occurs, the PC (in the usual case Mach) opens this COM port, sends a short serial command requesting the toolchange, then waits for my board to acknowledge that the tool change is complete (it does this by verifying the turret position optically THEN using a current measurement to verify the turret is reversed against the stop), after which the board sends an acknowledge message back that the tool change is complete and turret is locked, then the PC continues execution and moves to the next line of G-code.

As long as the Centroid software can be extended to perform this simple serial communication (and pause to wait for the toolchanges to complete) separately from the motion controller, then yes, it should work.

I can give you the exact serial protocol, but first maybe you should run my simple description above by the people at Centroid and see if this is do-able.

Cheers,
Andrew"

Please let me know if this is a possibility guys. As this may be a viable solution for any future Emco as this may be a viable solution for any future Emco tool turret conversions.

Ben
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by benscale160 »

Sorry, Andrew is the developer of this board

http://emcoturret.blogspot.com/2011/?m=1
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by benscale160 »

So is it possible for the lathe cnc12 software to open a comm port to the above device , request a tool change, and wait for a response? If I need to pay centroid for some time to help develop a solution so be it.

Ben
martyscncgarage
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by martyscncgarage »

Hi Ben,
I spoke with Centroid about this topic this morning. Currently this isn't something they do or want to pursue at this time. They are working on options for users with ATC. They would rather invest their time and effort into their own solution for this market.
I have to agree, it is cleaner if the ATC is integrated with the Control rather than an external micro controlled ATC and a communications link between the motion controller and the ATC micro controller.

I appreciate Centroid's thoroughness. They do listen to the customer and they just don't release something without testing it in house, then out to a handful of beta testers. It is only then that when everyone is satisfied, they release it to the public.

So, we users with ATC's and the need for more I/O, need to hang in there a little while longer.

Thank you for the suggestion and thought. You and I have had this conversation previously. Centroid is listening.

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
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benscale160
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by benscale160 »

Marty,

Thank you for the info. I did speak to Mario in tech support and he said someone sent in a turret from a 120p machine. He apparently wrote a PLC and created method to run the turret motor using 3 inputs and one output. Not really sure how it's gonna work. Though I know that using some logic it is possible to reduce the four inputs from the grey logic down to three and count bits.

I suppose for now I could rig up a motor control with a toggle button and to the tool changes manually.

I'm also gonna need 3 other inputs for the pneumatic tailstock. One for the full retract position, one for the target position against the workpiece, and one for over travel. Again, I think the 3 inputs can be reduced down to 2 using logic and bit counting.

So this would bring the input count to 5.

Add the e stop and drive ok inputs we are at 7.

I'm using Clearpath sdsk axis motors and find the hard stop homing feature very repeatable thus eliminating the need for any homing inputs.

I'm still not sure how the Plc program works, but I suppose I should leave this to the pros for me making any modifications without the wizard. Is there any documentation on how to edit PLCs?

I'm happy to say the lathe is up and running under acorn control for the most part. Still have some fine tuning and cabinet building to do.

When work settles down hopefully here in a few days, have some more questions regarding your 120 build. Specifically how you set up the haun yang GT vfd.

Thank you again
martyscncgarage
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by martyscncgarage »

benscale160 wrote: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:02 am Marty,

Thank you for the info. I did speak to Mario in tech support and he said someone sent in a turret from a 120p machine. He apparently wrote a PLC and created method to run the turret motor using 3 inputs and one output. Not really sure how it's gonna work. Though I know that using some logic it is possible to reduce the four inputs from the grey logic down to three and count bits.

I suppose for now I could rig up a motor control with a toggle button and to the tool changes manually.

I'm also gonna need 3 other inputs for the pneumatic tailstock. One for the full retract position, one for the target position against the workpiece, and one for over travel. Again, I think the 3 inputs can be reduced down to 2 using logic and bit counting.

So this would bring the input count to 5.

Add the e stop and drive ok inputs we are at 7.

I'm using Clearpath sdsk axis motors and find the hard stop homing feature very repeatable thus eliminating the need for any homing inputs.

I'm still not sure how the Plc program works, but I suppose I should leave this to the pros for me making any modifications without the wizard. Is there any documentation on how to edit PLCs?

I'm happy to say the lathe is up and running under acorn control for the most part. Still have some fine tuning and cabinet building to do.

When work settles down hopefully here in a few days, have some more questions regarding your 120 build. Specifically how you set up the haun yang GT vfd.

Thank you again
If you can make it with the I/O you have, roll with what Centroid came up with. I think Centroid will address the I/O need.

I just finished setting up my first HY GT VFD yesterday. I will take the time to record the parameters needed and wiring diagram. Posted a video yesterday as well on my youtube channel martyscncgarage

Amazon Huan Yang GT series
http://a.co/cGcS6EM
Huan Yang YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAU5sL ... PFw/videos

Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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Re: Emco 6p lathe retrofit/tool turret

Post by Centroid_Liviu »

benscale160 wrote: Sat Jul 21, 2018 8:02 am Marty,

I'm still not sure how the Plc program works, but I suppose I should leave this to the pros for me making any modifications without the wizard. Is there any documentation on how to edit PLCs?

Thank you again
The wizard can be used for some PLC modifications, however you can edit the underlying PLC program if you wish.

Please see the PLC Programming Manual for full details.

http://www.centroidcnc.com/downloads/CN ... Manual.pdf
When requesting support READ THIS POST first. https://www.viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043

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(We pride ourselves on providing timely solid technical support but, without good information we may not be able to help and/or reply until such information is posted.)
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