Deckel fP4A Dialog11

[fisaasif]

Hello,

Thank you for the information about M-codes.

Yes, the machine is equipped with a variable-speed drive that is configured with the controller. Currently, only one gear motor is connected to the outputs on the Centroid PLC. It seems there are no gear shifter sensors; instead, limit switches are used to send signals to the controller. Please refer to the picture for clarification.

The engineers from Mars have connected only one gear motor to the controller and activated M41 and M42 for gear changes. However, the spindle RPM exceeds 320 RPM on M41 and 2400 RPM on M42, while the machine's original maximum RPM is 4000. This setup does not consistently function correctly, as the gear motor sometimes misses its position. Additionally, these configured RPMs do not produce any torque; I can easily stop the spindle with my hand grip when it is set to 2400 RPM. On the other hand, 350 RPM does produce some torque, but it is not sufficient for machining operations due to RPM limitations.

M5, M6 and M7 are not CNC M codes for gear shifting. They are the names of the shifter motors, on the diagram that you posted.

M codes to shift gears might be M41-M44, or might be others, depending on how many gears are needed.

Does your machine have a variable-speed drive for the spindle motor? Or is gear shifting your only means of spindle speed control?

Do you know whether the gear-shift motors are wired to outputs on your Centroid PLC?

Do you know whether the shifter position sensors are wired to inputs on your Centroid PLC?

Do you know what Centroid control board you have? Acorn? AcornSix? Oak? Hickory? MPU11+GPIO4D?

Can you make a Report from your control, and post it here?

[fisaasif]

Hello,

Thank you for the information about M-codes.

Yes, the machine is equipped with a variable-speed drive that is configured with the controller. Currently, only one gear motor is connected to the outputs on the Centroid PLC. It seems there are no gear shifter sensors; instead, limit switches are used to send signals to the controller. Please refer to the picture for clarification.

report_0008DC111213-0321241575_2025-02-11_20-47-16.zip

(1.2 MiB) Downloaded 2 times

The engineers from Mars have connected only one gear motor to the controller and activated M41 and M42 for gear changes. However, the spindle RPM exceeds 320 RPM on M41 and 2400 RPM on M42, while the machine's original maximum RPM is 4000. This setup does not consistently function correctly, as the gear motor sometimes misses its position. Additionally, these configured RPMs do not produce any torque; I can easily stop the spindle with my hand grip when it is set to 2400 RPM. On the other hand, 350 RPM does produce some torque, but it is not sufficient for machining operations due to RPM limitations.

M5, M6 and M7 are not CNC M codes for gear shifting. They are the names of the shifter motors, on the diagram that you posted.

M codes to shift gears might be M41-M44, or might be others, depending on how many gears are needed.

Does your machine have a variable-speed drive for the spindle motor? Or is gear shifting your only means of spindle speed control?

Do you know whether the gear-shift motors are wired to outputs on your Centroid PLC?

Do you know whether the shifter position sensors are wired to inputs on your Centroid PLC?

Do you know what Centroid control board you have? Acorn? AcornSix? Oak? Hickory? MPU11+GPIO4D?

Can you make a Report from your control, and post it here?

[WesM]

Edit: Neverminded, I misread the OP post.

[cncsnw]

Ballscrews? This conversation is about spindle rotation, not axis movement.

[WesM]

My bad, I misread and for some reason thought he was talking about the axis drive gearing used in these machines.

[fisaasif]

Hello, Centroid

Yesterday, I manually set the gears to achieve 850 RPM and 4000 RPM, which is sufficient for my needs. It seems that I need to activate all three gears either simultaneously or one at a time using a specific M-code to reach the desired RPM.

What is the next step to integrate these three gear motors with the Centroid controller? I spoke with the local engineers of Centroid, and they mentioned that only one motor can be connected to the controller, while the other two cannot be connected.

Thank you, and I look forward to your guidance.

[fisaasif]

Hello, Centroid

Yesterday, I manually set the gears to achieve 850 RPM and 4000 RPM, which is sufficient for my needs. It seems that I need to activate all three gears either simultaneously or one at a time using a specific M-code to reach the desired RPM.

What is the next step to integrate these three gear motors with the Centroid controller? I spoke with the local engineers of Centroid, and they mentioned that only one motor can be connected to the controller, while the other two cannot be connected.

Thank you, and I look forward to your guidance.

I cannot say I have done such a retrofit and I have not seen any Deckel specific documentation but from what I have read about those machines, a Centroid controller would do very well.

I read that model would have Siemens DC servos fitted with Bosch amplifiers. If you can get specifications for the servos and feedback devices as well as assess their condition, we can recommend a suitable Centroid system for this retrofit.

[centroid467]

I think the local folks you mention may have misunderstood that you were referring to spindle range changing motors rather than the spindle drive motor.

To recap, you have a VFD driving the spindle motor and three motors that control the gearing. Looking at the M41 and M42 macros along with the PLC program in your report, it is set up for two ranges. Assuming the labels in the PLC program match the wiring, then it seems to be controlling motors M7 (referred to as GearMotor) and M6. The defined outputs for motor M5 are unused.

Are the 850 and 4000 RPM sufficient for your needs? I would suggest reaching out to Marc (CNCSW) to discuss wiring and PLC/macro changes to make it switch between those two ranges.

[fisaasif]

Dear Sir,

The local engineer has installed the VFD, but it cannot be properly configured with the gear-changing motors. I need to confirm whether the centroid system can be configured to work with all three gear motors through the PLC.

For instance, if I input the M41 command, will the system activate the necessary bits to rotate all three motors for 800 RPM (specifically S37, S41, and S42)? Additionally, for 4000 RPM, when I input the M42 command, will the system activate the bits S36, S39, and S42?

Thank you for your assistance.

I think the local folks you mention may have misunderstood that you were referring to spindle range-changing motors rather than the spindle drive motor.

To recap, you have a VFD driving the spindle motor and three motors that control the gearing. Looking at the M41 and M42 macros along with the PLC program in your report, it is set up for two ranges. Assuming the labels in the PLC program match the wiring, then it seems to be controlling motors M7 (referred to as GearMotor) and M6. The defined outputs for motor M5 are unused.

Are the 850 and 4000 RPM sufficient for your needs? I would suggest reaching out to Marc (CNCSW) to discuss wiring and PLC/macro changes to make it switch between those two ranges.

[tblough]

I need to confirm whether the centroid system can be configured to work with all three gear motors through the PLC.

Yes it can control the three gear motors. However, you can only have four gear ranges. In each range you can control the speed of the spindle motor. Depending on the Centroid control, you may need to purchase the add on I/O board.


Marc has previously mentioned he has the necessary PLC code available for sale, or you can have Centroid create it, or do it yourself.

The real question is, do you even need the transmission? Modern sensorless vector control VFDs can generate full motor torque at 0 rpm, and proper VFD rated motors have a wide rpm range (my Baldor motors I use are rated 0-6000 rpm). People normally lock the transmission in a middle gear, and use the VFD and motor to generate the full rpm range of the original machine.