New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
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New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
I've posted a few threads here and there over the past couple months, but here's the official build thread. I'm just about done with it at this point and I'm down to dialing stuff in.
First, the photo album: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBiFta
I bought a used Denford CNC Lathe a couple months ago for our office. I have a manual lathe but nowhere to set it up in our new space, so I needed something self contained and small. We are a motion picture film scanning and restoration service. When I was in film school I was always into visiting the small shops around town that did film related work but also had their own in-house machine shops. Even in the 90s, it was getting harder and harder to get parts for cameras and related equipment, so there were a handful of places that just made them themselves. 30 years later I own a company that deals with archival film and the situation is worse. A lot of the hardware we use is from the 70s and 80s, plus we're now confronted with film that's so old it's shrinking and can't be run on traditional hardware with sprocket wheels. Sprocketed drive systems can completely destroying shrunken film.
Over the past several years I've built a completely sprocketless film scanner for 35mm through IMAX film, but primarily for some really old (110 years old) film that one of our clients wants us to scan. That machine is nearly done, we're down to the software at this point. Almost all of that was custom made to my design, but farmed out to third party machine shops to manufacture. Now that we're done, and we're considering building a second one, I am looking to bring some of that in house. Specifically, the rollers we use for film and the hubs for the particle transfer rollers that make up the transport of the film scanner. And, we've had several people ask about getting rollers made for their machines, so it may turn into a small side hustle for us, if the numbers make sense.
In any case, the Denford is basically a student lathe for teaching CNC, and it's built around a Sherline 4000. It's small and completely self-contained. The hardest material we will ever mill on this will probably be aluminum, but most parts will be made out of Delrin. My goal is to have a machine that's basically completely self contained using conversational programming to turn these simple shapes with good repeatability and minimal babysitting. But I also want basic manual functionality, which we're going to be able to do with the USB-BOB board.
I removed all of the original Denford CNC controller hardware, the open loop Z and X steppers, and the spindle motor. The original seller said that the motor made a weird buzzing noise, and I already have a couple spare Teknic Clearpath MCPV and MCVC motors from the film scanner project, so I decided to replace it with that.
The Teknic motor takes PWM, so I use a 0-10V -> PWM converter board to convert the VFD analog out on the Acorn board to PWM. The Sherline has a 9/16" shaft, and I had a heck of a time finding a pulley for the motor with that bore diameter. In fact, I couldn't. So I ended up drilling it out on my drill press, and it's less than ideal - super wobbly. But once I'm done dialing things in, the first project will be to fix that on the lathe, boring out a new pulley, so it turns more smoothly. I've added a spindle encoder as well, so that I can eventually do threading and maybe even rigid tapping if the machine can handle it.
The stepper motors were going to be closed loop motors I already had, but it turns out the Sherline shaft coupler didn't match the shaft diameter of those motors and the coupler isn't a standard one that I can easily replace. So I had to buy new closed loop steppers with 1/4" shafts. Not expensive, just another delay.
I was able to re-use the homing switches but that's pretty much the only electronic/electrical part left from the original setup.
The PC is a GMKTek Mini PC I got on Amazon for about $130 with Windows 11 Pro preinstalled. It passes the Centroid PC test, and seems to be just fine. What I like about it is that it's absolutely tiny, and it has two ethernet connections. Wifi doesn't work so well when it's inside a closed steel box, so having the ability to plug into our wired network is great. I picked up a small touchscreen as well for about $100 on amazon - 1920x1080 but small, to match the form factor of the machine. It's mounted on the side with a swing-arm VESA mount.
I'm using the USB-BOB board as well, for the control panel on the front, which has separate MPG wheels for the two axes, a 1x/10x/100x selector for those MPGs, feed and spindle speed override knobs, buttons for cycle Start and stop, feed hold, MPG enable/disable, speed override enable/disable, and some cabinet lights. There's room on the panel for a couple more buttons if I decide I need them. The USB BOB has been really easy to set up, but I did end up reconfiguring where I put it to cut down on the amount of wiring. It now lives underneath the machine, which is not ideal, but as long as I don't need to rewire things it's fine. I don't expect to have to add any more to this than I'm already using.
I'm at the point now where the motors are all working, I'm able to home the axes, and some of the control panel is set up. I'm working on dialing in the motors now, and will post some questions below.
First, the photo album: https://flic.kr/s/aHBqjBiFta
I bought a used Denford CNC Lathe a couple months ago for our office. I have a manual lathe but nowhere to set it up in our new space, so I needed something self contained and small. We are a motion picture film scanning and restoration service. When I was in film school I was always into visiting the small shops around town that did film related work but also had their own in-house machine shops. Even in the 90s, it was getting harder and harder to get parts for cameras and related equipment, so there were a handful of places that just made them themselves. 30 years later I own a company that deals with archival film and the situation is worse. A lot of the hardware we use is from the 70s and 80s, plus we're now confronted with film that's so old it's shrinking and can't be run on traditional hardware with sprocket wheels. Sprocketed drive systems can completely destroying shrunken film.
Over the past several years I've built a completely sprocketless film scanner for 35mm through IMAX film, but primarily for some really old (110 years old) film that one of our clients wants us to scan. That machine is nearly done, we're down to the software at this point. Almost all of that was custom made to my design, but farmed out to third party machine shops to manufacture. Now that we're done, and we're considering building a second one, I am looking to bring some of that in house. Specifically, the rollers we use for film and the hubs for the particle transfer rollers that make up the transport of the film scanner. And, we've had several people ask about getting rollers made for their machines, so it may turn into a small side hustle for us, if the numbers make sense.
In any case, the Denford is basically a student lathe for teaching CNC, and it's built around a Sherline 4000. It's small and completely self-contained. The hardest material we will ever mill on this will probably be aluminum, but most parts will be made out of Delrin. My goal is to have a machine that's basically completely self contained using conversational programming to turn these simple shapes with good repeatability and minimal babysitting. But I also want basic manual functionality, which we're going to be able to do with the USB-BOB board.
I removed all of the original Denford CNC controller hardware, the open loop Z and X steppers, and the spindle motor. The original seller said that the motor made a weird buzzing noise, and I already have a couple spare Teknic Clearpath MCPV and MCVC motors from the film scanner project, so I decided to replace it with that.
The Teknic motor takes PWM, so I use a 0-10V -> PWM converter board to convert the VFD analog out on the Acorn board to PWM. The Sherline has a 9/16" shaft, and I had a heck of a time finding a pulley for the motor with that bore diameter. In fact, I couldn't. So I ended up drilling it out on my drill press, and it's less than ideal - super wobbly. But once I'm done dialing things in, the first project will be to fix that on the lathe, boring out a new pulley, so it turns more smoothly. I've added a spindle encoder as well, so that I can eventually do threading and maybe even rigid tapping if the machine can handle it.
The stepper motors were going to be closed loop motors I already had, but it turns out the Sherline shaft coupler didn't match the shaft diameter of those motors and the coupler isn't a standard one that I can easily replace. So I had to buy new closed loop steppers with 1/4" shafts. Not expensive, just another delay.
I was able to re-use the homing switches but that's pretty much the only electronic/electrical part left from the original setup.
The PC is a GMKTek Mini PC I got on Amazon for about $130 with Windows 11 Pro preinstalled. It passes the Centroid PC test, and seems to be just fine. What I like about it is that it's absolutely tiny, and it has two ethernet connections. Wifi doesn't work so well when it's inside a closed steel box, so having the ability to plug into our wired network is great. I picked up a small touchscreen as well for about $100 on amazon - 1920x1080 but small, to match the form factor of the machine. It's mounted on the side with a swing-arm VESA mount.
I'm using the USB-BOB board as well, for the control panel on the front, which has separate MPG wheels for the two axes, a 1x/10x/100x selector for those MPGs, feed and spindle speed override knobs, buttons for cycle Start and stop, feed hold, MPG enable/disable, speed override enable/disable, and some cabinet lights. There's room on the panel for a couple more buttons if I decide I need them. The USB BOB has been really easy to set up, but I did end up reconfiguring where I put it to cut down on the amount of wiring. It now lives underneath the machine, which is not ideal, but as long as I don't need to rewire things it's fine. I don't expect to have to add any more to this than I'm already using.
I'm at the point now where the motors are all working, I'm able to home the axes, and some of the control panel is set up. I'm working on dialing in the motors now, and will post some questions below.
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
nice! thanks for posting a build thread.
we will have the next version of USB BOB support in CNC12 by the end of the week!
we will have the next version of USB BOB support in CNC12 by the end of the week!
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
Awesome - can't wait. Well, I can wait because we had a major server implosion at work this week and I'm dealing with that, so good timing!
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
Ok first question:
I'm trying to dial in the mm/rev numbers for the lathe axes in the wizard, following the instructions in Tech Bulletin 36.
I have moved the axes to the middle of the machine and in MDI entered:
G91 Z5 F250
When I run this, I get a "502 Invalid G Code" error.
I can jog both axes and home the machine, the motors go in the correct directions, feed overrides work, basically everything is fine when moving it manually. But whenever I try to move it in MDI, I get this error. It's essentially the same as what's in the tech bulletin except I'm changing the distance and speed. What am I doing wrong here?
I'm trying to dial in the mm/rev numbers for the lathe axes in the wizard, following the instructions in Tech Bulletin 36.
I have moved the axes to the middle of the machine and in MDI entered:
G91 Z5 F250
When I run this, I get a "502 Invalid G Code" error.
I can jog both axes and home the machine, the motors go in the correct directions, feed overrides work, basically everything is fine when moving it manually. But whenever I try to move it in MDI, I get this error. It's essentially the same as what's in the tech bulletin except I'm changing the distance and speed. What am I doing wrong here?
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
G91 is for mills, not for lathes
Uwe
Uwe
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
Ahh. CNC on a lathe is new to me! I pulled that code right out of the Tech Bulletin, so maybe that should be updated to explain how to do the same with a lathe.
That said, when I try
G01 Z5 F250
...nothing happens. I don't get an error but the Message Windows says "MDI..." while doing nothing. I have to hit esc to get control of the machine again. Or is G01 the wrong command? All I want to do here is move the axis by a fixed distance so I can measure it and confirm my numbers are correct.
That said, when I try
G01 Z5 F250
...nothing happens. I don't get an error but the Message Windows says "MDI..." while doing nothing. I have to hit esc to get control of the machine again. Or is G01 the wrong command? All I want to do here is move the axis by a fixed distance so I can measure it and confirm my numbers are correct.
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
You should read the manual....
G98 per minute feed
G99 per revolution feed
if G99 is active and the spindle is not turning nothing will happen
Uwe
G98 per minute feed
G99 per revolution feed
if G99 is active and the spindle is not turning nothing will happen
Uwe
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
FWIW, I have skimmed through most of the 403 page Lathe user manual and when I look up G99 there is nothing anywhere that says nothing will happen if it's active and the spindle isn't turning. If the spindle is turning, I am now getting movement so thanks for the tip.
But is it possible to command the machine to move an axis by some predefined distance without the spindle running? If so, how? As I am still testing the machine I'd rather not have the spindle running while I've got stuff set up to measure the travel distance. It's a very small machine in a tight space.
But is it possible to command the machine to move an axis by some predefined distance without the spindle running? If so, how? As I am still testing the machine I'd rather not have the spindle running while I've got stuff set up to measure the travel distance. It's a very small machine in a tight space.
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
G99friolator wrote: ↑Thu May 16, 2024 3:03 pm FWIW, I have skimmed through most of the 403 page Lathe user manual and when I look up G99 there is nothing anywhere that says nothing will happen if it's active and the spindle isn't turning. If the spindle is turning, I am now getting movement so thanks for the tip.
But is it possible to command the machine to move an axis by some predefined distance without the spindle running? If so, how? As I am still testing the machine I'd rather not have the spindle running while I've got stuff set up to measure the travel distance. It's a very small machine in a tight space.
G1 X10 F0.1
X will move every revolution of the spindle 0.1 units, logical, that if the spindle is not turning x will not move
G98
G1 X10 F250
X will move 250 units per minute regardless if the spindle is turning or not
If you have set up that active G codes are displayed, you can see if G99 or G98 is active, they are modal
Uwe
Last edited by suntravel on Fri May 17, 2024 12:15 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New Build: Denford/Sherline MicroLathe
Got it. G98 it is then. I've managed to get this dialed in as close as my dial indicator will get me - about 10 microns. Not bad, but I can do better I think. Need to get a new indicator with better resolution.