Home all and limit all

All things related to the Centroid Acorn CNC Controller

Moderator: cnckeith

cryptonym
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2022 2:22 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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Re: Home all and limit all

Post by cryptonym »

Finally had a moment to get back on the machine. Attached is the report file requested.

Thanks for pointing out that Acorn has some input choices that combine home and limit. I had not noticed the axis specific values as I am setup using HomeAll and LimitAll.

What appears to be missing in the list is something like a HomeLimitAll. Aside from that, my scenario is a bit odd in that I have no lower limit switch on my Z axis, I've not figured out a good way to mount one on this machine. I also have an A axis defined, which has no limits. So, in the console I've set those limit positions to 0 manually, and 0 for the "A" home also. I also change the limit values for the home positions to be that of the HomeAll input. Only the ends furthest from Home position are on LimitAll.

I guess my real issue is that the wizard replaces these special motor settings when I write the changes out. It would be nice if it recognized the current settings as a special case of overrides and either prompted or automatically preserved them. Maybe the limit settings could be editable in the wizard on the limits page? I guess the magic piece I'm looking for is a way to tell the Wizard what HomeAll means, and what LimitAll means as related to the machine axes.

The wizard really aids in the machine setup, but this one thing now makes it destructive to the config, as I have to remember to go back into the console and change the machine motor screen after each wizard save.

Thanks for all the info you've provided.
Attachments
report_30E283D7B993-0126225583_2023-01-24_16-04-44.zip
(1.05 MiB) Downloaded 2 times
cnckeith
Posts: 5218
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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Re: Home all and limit all

Post by cnckeith »

the doc is a draft i am working and it will be added to the Acorn install manual.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
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cnckeith
Posts: 5218
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: Yes
DC3IOB: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
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Re: Home all and limit all

Post by cnckeith »

cncsnw wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:17 pm And a question for Keith:

As far as I know, there is no reason in CNC12 that an Acorn system could not have:
Three minus limit switches, wired in series, to one input. For this example call it INP1.
Three plus limit switches, wired in series, to another input. For this example, call it INP2.

Then, on the Machine Configuration -> Motor Parameters table:
Designate INP1 as the minus limit input for all three axes
Designate INP2 as the plus limit input for all three axes
Designate INP2 as the plus home input for all three axes

You would then set all three axes to home in the plus direction.

This should provide the same functionality as your suggested LimitAll + HomeAll scenario, using just two inputs and just six switches, but should provide the added safety that, if the machine runs past the plus limit after homing has been completed, a "407 ... Limit Tripped" error will stop the machine automatically. I think that is what the original poster in this thread was trying to achieve in the first place.

My question is: how do you accomplish that using the Acorn Wizard?

yes you can do that. If Acorn users want to use CNC12 features to setup anything in a different way than the Wizard supports then all you do select
custom home.png
and then use all the tools at your disposal. CNC12 config, parameters, macros, plc programming etc.. to customize

Keep in mind the Wizard is not designed to support every last possible combination, just the 98% of the common ones. that being said we have been adding to it more and more and are always up for suggestions. thanks.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
cnckeith
Posts: 5218
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
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MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: Yes
DC3IOB: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
Contact:

Re: Home all and limit all

Post by cnckeith »

cryptonym wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 5:46 pm Finally had a moment to get back on the machine. Attached is the report file requested.

Thanks for pointing out that Acorn has some input choices that combine home and limit. I had not noticed the axis specific values as I am setup using HomeAll and LimitAll.

What appears to be missing in the list is something like a HomeLimitAll. Aside from that, my scenario is a bit odd in that I have no lower limit switch on my Z axis, I've not figured out a good way to mount one on this machine. I also have an A axis defined, which has no limits. So, in the console I've set those limit positions to 0 manually, and 0 for the "A" home also. I also change the limit values for the home positions to be that of the HomeAll input. Only the ends furthest from Home position are on LimitAll.

I guess my real issue is that the wizard replaces these special motor settings when I write the changes out. It would be nice if it recognized the current settings as a special case of overrides and either prompted or automatically preserved them. Maybe the limit settings could be editable in the wizard on the limits page? I guess the magic piece I'm looking for is a way to tell the Wizard what HomeAll means, and what LimitAll means as related to the machine axes.

The wizard really aids in the machine setup, but this one thing now makes it destructive to the config, as I have to remember to go back into the console and change the machine motor screen after each wizard save.

Thanks for all the info you've provided.
hello.
With Acorn you can use the Wizard to write parameters and create the PLC program, macros, control config settings that work with the selections made or the user can choose to set the CNC12 parameters, configuration, macros, plc program themselves.
Some power users like to use the Wizard perform 99% of the setup work and then go modify macros, home programs, VCP function, cnc12 configuration as the Wizard is not intended to support every feature of CNC12 or satisfy every possible combination.
In your case you have modified the CNC12 home and limit inputs in a combination not support by the Wizard and when you press Write Settings to CNC control the Wizard writes the input numbers to match the input definitions you made in the input menu. This is what the Wizard does, so until the Wizard supports a new input definition "HomeAllLimitAll" this is the way it will act by design. Most power users that use the Wizard in this way will do 99% of the setup with the Wizard (and then never use it again) and then go customize CNC12 to meet their application. when done, be sure to create a report.zip when you have it all configured the way you want and working, then if you ever have to reinstall CNC12 (same version) you can use "restore report" to restore all the wizard made and custom settings in seconds.

I'll look into adding a combination Home Limit All feature to the Wizard and see what complications that might bring.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
TopQuarkDoc
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:12 am
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CNC Control System Serial Number: F045DA7F1D5B-0109191641

Re: Home all and limit all

Post by TopQuarkDoc »

Well, I'm glad that this thread has generated so much discussion!!

And thanks to cncsnw for pointing out a way of configuring a combination set of home/limit switches on one input.
I modified the limit inputs to correspond with the home inputs in the Config->Mach.->Motor screen.
It works great just like a HomeLimitAll input would in the Wizard. You do see 407 Limit Tripped followed by
Limit Reset messages as it's homing, but it continues homing just fine. The great thing is that
with this approach, one can combined all the homing/limit switches (in series of course) on one input.
This makes a great deal of difference for Acorn users with limited inputs. I might never have to use my ETH1616
board.

One cavet, if you use the Wizard to do anything and write the info to the PLC,
you will have manually change the values again in the Config menu.

I'll open a separate thread about my questions of M94/M95

Thanks everyone
Chipwelder
Posts: 9
Joined: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:16 am
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CNC Control System Serial Number: 102139, 20D7787D9392-0817226460

Re: Home all and limit all

Post by Chipwelder »

Comments and questions. TopQuarkDoc indicated that he jumped the limits and homes together then to one input. That would trip a limit when you then tried to home. If not jumpered then home switches would 407 during machine execution but would not error 407 during a homing routine.
I am just setting up 3 axis router and stumbling on key programming due to inability to locate key function codes("skin event numbers"), but am part way thru home and limit switch planning. My paralysis by analysis is due to E-stop function, reset function. I am upgrading a Romaxx router that used a dpst E-stop to cut spindle power(110vac direct to router spindle) and controller and motor power on other pole.
I noticed during my widespread search for key codes that using reset as an estop is not recommended and at another place some other post or link there was explanation of what an e-stop does and what a reset does. My point is I don't want to blow my electronics with an inductive pulse from a guillotine power cut but do want to stop axis moves as quickly as safely possible and them be able to resume with the least amount of rewinding, restarting(with needed tool relocations). I think it would be beneficial to add some discussion on E-stop and reset to help clarify good practice in assigning these two switches. My Industrial Engineering background shudders at placing a big red reset button(default VCP "skin") where an Estop button is located on my Centroid lathe control and then telling me not to use the big red easy to see reset button to stop the machine in an "emergency". So limit switches come into play in this in that I think they trip the same fault as the e-stop.
I got to this thread trying to locate my yesterday post related to VCP button programming(posted in the new
VCP builds thread)that is acknowledged when I logged in but Ican't find it and don't yet see any replies. I will go back to there and repost my button questions and suggestions for additions to the VCP 2.0 user manual.
Got some great ideas on the limit home switching discussion above.
Thanks all.
cnckeith
Posts: 5218
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
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CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
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Contact:

Re: Home all and limit all

Post by cnckeith »

I always use a physical Estop button(s) and a estop contactor to cut the big power to axis drives and spindle drives etc..
the VCP is reset button is just what is says on it.. it is a software reset button that clears error states.
Need support? READ THIS POST first. http://centroidcncforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1043
All Acorn Documentation is located here: viewtopic.php?f=60&t=3397
Answers to common questions: viewforum.php?f=63
and here viewforum.php?f=61
Gear we use but don't sell. https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid_di ... _gear.html
cncsnw
Posts: 3017
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Home all and limit all

Post by cncsnw »

So limit switches come into play in this in that I think they trip the same fault as the e-stop.
Normal limit switches do not trigger a Fault condition at all.

Limit switches stop movement; cause any running CNC cycle to be canceled; and turn off the spindle motor; but they do not release servo power, and they do not open the E-stop contactor (i.e. they do not turn off the NoFaultOut output).
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