Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

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Dave_C
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by Dave_C »

Ok, this is not going anywhere fast because we can't get good feedback on the test we ask for.

So one more time:

Disconnect the KSBI board from Acorn and run these test, record the results!

Using MDI, enter M3 S300 (minimum speed) and read the DC voltage at the acorn output! It should be 0 VDC!

Using MDI, enter M3 S3000 (max speed) and read the DC voltage at the acorn output! It should be 10 VDC!

Using MDI, enter M3 S1350 (mid speed) and read the DC voltage at the acorn output. It should be close to 5 vdc.

NOW, connect the KSBI and run the same test as above and read the voltage at the acorn output. IF they are different than the first test then the KSBI is affecting the DC voltage.

After you complete this test and post the results, maybe we can help you span the KSBI so that it controls the spindle at the desired speed!

If not, then have a great day!

Dave C.
Grizzly G0678 Mill ,CNC conversion with Acorn. G4004G Lathe, Mach 3 conversion to Acorn.
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by WVDualsport »

Dave_C wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 4:31 pm Ok, this is not going anywhere fast because we can't get good feedback on the test we ask for.

So one more time:

Disconnect the KSBI board from Acorn and run these test, record the results!

Using MDI, enter M3 S300 (minimum speed) and read the DC voltage at the acorn output! It should be 0 VDC!

Using MDI, enter M3 S3000 (max speed) and read the DC voltage at the acorn output! It should be 10 VDC!

Using MDI, enter M3 S1350 (mid speed) and read the DC voltage at the acorn output. It should be close to 5 vdc.

NOW, connect the KSBI and run the same test as above and read the voltage at the acorn output. IF they are different than the first test then the KSBI is affecting the DC voltage.

After you complete this test and post the results, maybe we can help you span the KSBI so that it controls the spindle at the desired speed!

If not, then have a great day!

Dave C.

Ok. I did that. Now I have a different problem.

First, with the KBSI disconnected (while board powered off), I got the following at Acorn output:

M3 S300 1.026V
M3 S3000 10.05v
M3 S1500 5.39V
** The spindle turned at 93 RPM during this test. ??

With the KBSI hooked back up (while board powered off) I got the following at the KBSI output:

M3 S300 1.037V
M3 S3000 10.05V
M3 S1500 5.39V

Spindle still turns at 93 RPM for all three tests and will not run in manual now aside from the 93 RPM previously mentioned.

Before unhooking these two wires I was getting 5v out from the Acorn with 600ish to 2880ish rpm at the spindle, now I have 93 rpm regardless.

Help.

I don't really understand why the spindle turned at all with the KBSI disconnected.....I guess it is from the fact that the KBSI is still powered and sending some nominal power? But not from the Acorn at that time.....after it was reconnected it appeared to be sending the full 10v signal which the PM didn't know what to do with? ?? Nothing changed other than disconnecting and reconnecting the two outputs on the Acorn.

The whole purpose of the KBSI was to get 5v to the Precision Matthews spindle. That was not an option on previous versions of CNC12. It is now.
Attachments
KBSI Wiring.pdf
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Dave_C
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by Dave_C »

Ok, that helps!

I looked at the wiring diagram. Some of the lines, the commons for example, are easy to miss but it looks ok from what I can see.

Does the PM take a 0-5 vdc input or is it wanting 4-20Ma signal?

If the PM will take a 0-5vdc signal then take out the KBSI and change the Acorn wizard to 0-5vdc output and the problem should go away.

The reason for the PM running with just the KBSI powered makes me think it is looking for a 4-20Ma signal?

Dave C.
Grizzly G0678 Mill ,CNC conversion with Acorn. G4004G Lathe, Mach 3 conversion to Acorn.
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by WVDualsport »

Dave_C wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 5:52 pm Ok, that helps!

Does the PM take a 0-5 vdc input or is it wanting 4-20Ma signal?

If the PM will take a 0-5vdc signal then take out the KBSI and change the Acorn wizard to 0-5vdc output and the problem should go away.

The reason for the PM running with just the KBSI powered makes me think it is looking for a 4-20Ma signal?

Dave C.
As to your first question.....I don't know.

I think my wiring is long enough to just run the KBSI Out to the Acorn Out. If I switch the wizard to limit to 5v. It should fix the issue.

Update/Edit:

I understand why I have no spindle control....I have no outputs defined in the Wizard. Sooooo....I restored the report that was listed in post 1. "Update accepted" or whatever, "Hit any key to continue." Close CNC12, power cycle board. No updated/restored inputs and outputs in the wizard.....I tied a report generated on 11/20 also....it did not update either. Any idea why, when I open the Wizard and make no changes, then close it that I am losing all my settings? AND why the restore report is not working? Fighting two issues at the same time sucks.
Dave_C
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by Dave_C »

As to your first question.....I don't know.
Ok, you need to look at the PM manual and see if you can find this out! IN the meantime, don't hook the Acorn output directly to the PM until you know for sure what the PM wants for an input. It may or may not damage the Acorn board output but let's be sure before we just "hook it up".
I think my wiring is long enough to just run the KBSI Out to the Acorn Out. If I switch the wizard to limit to 5v. It should fix the issue.
Why would you hook the KBSI output to the Acorn output? Hopefully you meant hook the Acorn output to the PM speed input.

As to your reports not staying, that is another issue so let's keep this thread on speed until we get that fixed and then we will take on the other issue.

It might be that you have updated the software past the point where the old reports were made and they no longer just import normally. You can always enter the settings manually! You can define outputs and inputs manually as well.

It is not hard!

One more thing I need to know: What controlled the PM spindle speed in the first place before you started on the conversion? Was it a knob on the panel of the PM?

Dave C.
Grizzly G0678 Mill ,CNC conversion with Acorn. G4004G Lathe, Mach 3 conversion to Acorn.
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by WVDualsport »

Dave_C wrote: Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:42 pm
As to your first question.....I don't know.

I think my wiring is long enough to just run the KBSI Out to the Acorn Out. If I switch the wizard to limit to 5v. It should fix the issue.
Why would you hook the KBSI output to the Acorn output? Hopefully you meant hook the Acorn output to the PM speed input.


Dave C.
Yes, that was a typo on my part.


The PM manual is sorely lacking. It doesn't list spindle voltage at all. I go that info from another fellow who had built a PM conversion and he provided the KBSI schematic on an old forum post I found somewhere a couple years ago.

The last two reports were from the software installed currently. I will try to reset all the inputs by hand and re-save them. I just don't understand why this is an issue. I might reinstall CNC12 (current version) and try a restore first, just in case I need to do that eventually.
Last edited by WVDualsport on Sat Nov 27, 2021 6:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dave_C
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by Dave_C »

Ok, sound good.

I looked up your PM-30 manual and the spindle speed was controlled with a 3 wire setup and used a knob on the front panel to control the speed.

So unless the PM-30 spindle controller has a jumper to change it from this 3 wire speed control to a 2 wire 0-5vdc speed control, trying to send it a signal via the KBSI is not going to work nor will sending one from the acorn to the PM-30.

Most drives I have worked on have the ability to be changed to one of three types of inputs. Either the knob type that uses a 3 wire input, 0-10vdc by 2 wires or 0-5 vdc by 2 wires.

So did you make any changes to the speed controller to change it from the knob 3 wire input?

Late Edit: I should also mention that the 3 wire knob control requires the PM-30 board to have its own voltage or current so trying to hook acorn to this when it already has power is a problem. It has to have a jumper to change it over to 0-5 or 0-10 vdc in order to work with
Acorn. I have no idea if there is a module somewhere that can do this as I have not had to do it in the past.

Dave C.
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by martyscncgarage »

Where did the KBSI-240D Come from?
IS it a known good drive?

The KBSI240D's job is to provide mains isolation. Not just supply 0-5VDC.
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by Dave_C »

https://www.kbelectronics.com/data_sheets/kbsi240d.pdf

That is the link to the KBSI-240D

Dave C.
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Re: Displayed Spindle Speed is Incorrect

Post by WVDualsport »

The Schematic is attached a few posts back and worked perfectly....aside from the offset in rpms called by CNC12 and what the spindle put out which a little more than 2x.

The CNC12 is current version, but I will reinstall it.

Pretty sure I bought the KBSI 240D from KB to provide the 5v signal, as I could not do that with Acorn at the time.

Dace C. The one re-attached here.

Update: I reinstalled CNC12 4.64. I did a restore from report.....the only thing that came back was my macros and some of the wizard info. I still had to select drive type (Clear Path SDSK) and set ALL INPUTS and OUTPUTS. Previous changes I had made to the VCP, including custom buttons, macros, etc., restored, as did Remote and KP-3 settings (just not the two INPUTS). Air blast works, homing works, custom macros work, ......just not the spindle. It turns at 93 RPM and is otherwise unresponsive.
Attachments
KBSI Wiring.pdf
(397.6 KiB) Downloaded 61 times
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