Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

All things related to the Centroid Acorn CNC Controller

Moderator: cnckeith

Krenovian
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:50 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none

Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by Krenovian » Thu Jan 25, 2018 4:21 pm

This is a follow on to the discussion located here viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1395 "No Connection to Acorn Discovered" Error. It is also closely related to this discussion viewtopic.php?f=60&t=1429 Acorn suddenly having issues turning on. I didn't want to hijack Reedfirst's thread so I've started a new one. I'll apologize in advance for any redundancy between the latter thread and this one.

The problem is that Beagle Bone Green (BBG) will not boot up in some scenarios. It seems to involve systems which are using both a 24 and 5 VDC power supplies. It appears that at least four of us have experienced some form of this issue. In my system I have observed the following:

1. After wiring the Acorn board into my system and turning the power on BBG booted and all the appropriate leds came on.
2. I turned the power off to tighten a loose wire on one of the drivers. Turned the power on and BBG booted again.
3. Approximately 40 mins. later the BBG dropped out (no led lights or ethernet cable lights lit). I've only observed this behavior once.
4. Currently I can turn on power if the mill has been powered down for an extended period of time and BBG will boot up.
5. If I cycle the power off then back on after the BBG initially boots it will not reboot the second or subsequent times.
6. If I disconnect the 5 VDC power supply then power up the mill the BBG always boots. I can then reconnect to 5 VDC PS and the BBG stays on.
7. The BBG acts as if it is bricked. The debricking procedure is not required to restore function. Disconnecting the 5 VDC PS then rebooting works.
8. It doesn't matter if the drivers are powered on or off. Whether the 5 VDC PS is on or off determines BBG behavior (mostly, see #4).
9. The work around on my system is to power up the BBG first then power up the 5 VDC PS. BBG always boots if I do this.

My system is wired up per the Leadshine schematic. Drives are Leadshine MA860H (3). 24 VDC PS is the Meanwell unit supplied with the Acorn board. The 5 VDC PS is an ATX dual output 5 and 12 VDC unit. The problem would appear to be hardware related as my observations including #4 and down involved the CNCPC being booted up but neither CNC12 nor the Wizard running.

Conjecture from the above referenced threads as to the cause of the problem include:

1. Voltage ripple issues related to the 24 and 5 VDC switching power supplies having their respective commons connected (see the Leadshine schematic) inducing unexpected or unusual behavior (in the BBG?). Is the quality of the PS an issue?
2. Conflict between the Leadshine drives and the Acorn board and BBG when the drives are powered up at the same time as the Acorn. (In my case this doesn't seem to be the problem)
3. BBG protection features preventing it from booting if the 5 VDC PS Powers up before the 24 VDC power supply in systems with separate power supplies.

Proposed work arounds:

1. Dual output PS supply rather than separate 5 VDC and 24 VDC power supplies. May not be the solution as andyolney in Reedfirst's thread is using a dual output PS. May be worth checking further though.
2. Gary Campbell has provided a schematic with a work around which solved the problem for him. download/file.php?id=1588
3. Similar to Gary's approach, starting the 5 VDC PS after the BBG boots works for me. I have two switches on my cabinet. One powers up everything but the drives. The second powers up the drives. I always turn on the first switch prior to the drives so it was a simple matter of wiring the 110 VAC power for the 5 VDC into the second switch which turns on the drives.
4. Firmware update to BBG to address the issue? I don't know if this is possible but might be worth looking into.
5. Isolating the 5VDC and 24 VDC power supplies?
6. Using higher quality power supplies?

I want to thank Gary Campbell for pointing me towards the problem and suggesting a possible work around that ultimately led me to the dual switch approach. Thanks Gary!

martyscncgarage
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by martyscncgarage » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:03 pm

Thanks for rounding it all up and putting it in one place!

Patience....
The Wizards are at work.... :ugeek:

Marty
"Jack of all trades, master of none!"
Mesa, AZ

Gary Campbell
Posts: 167
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:32 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: C8FD19D3C3E1-1109170238
Location: Marquette, MI

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by Gary Campbell » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:08 pm

Krenovian...
Yes, thank you for the compilation and you're welcome for the props. I just found one of the early work-arounds. My current build will use Leadshine drives and a dual voltage Meanwell power supply, we will see if that offers any different results. Waiting on a shipment of non-stock drives, but expect a report next week.
GCnC Control
CNC Control & Retrofits
https://www.youtube.com/user/Islaww1/videos

tblough
Posts: 131
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:03 am
Acorn CNC Controller: No
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: Yes
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: 100505
100327
102696
Location: Boston, MA
Contact:

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by tblough » Thu Jan 25, 2018 5:35 pm

The Beagle Bone boards run Linux which is notorious for having problems if not properly shut down.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic ... JOfSdp7ilQ

Perhaps these issues are caused by the power being disconnected from the BBG/BBB before the shutdown sequence is finished?

If that is the case, something like this might help:

https://andicelabs.com/2016/05/beaglebo ... ower-cape/
Cheers,

Tom
Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation.

Krenovian
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:50 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by Krenovian » Fri Jan 26, 2018 12:03 am

Tom,

I read through the information in the two links you provided. It adds another dimension that I was unaware of. Thanks for posting. At this point I’ll continue configuring my system and see if I can get appropriate movement from my steppers.

CJ

martyscncgarage
Posts: 954
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by martyscncgarage » Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:15 am

When done for the day:
First, always do a shut down when exiting CNC12.
Then do a Windows 10 shut down.


Don't dig too deep into this. Centroid HQ is reviewing these concerns relating to BBG power ups when using separate power supplies.

Marty
"Jack of all trades, master of none!"
Mesa, AZ

Dave_C
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 8:25 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none
Contact:

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by Dave_C » Fri Jan 26, 2018 5:11 pm

I talked to my younger brother who at one time did automation control for large manufacturing plants. He said they had this issue as well when they used separate power supplies with ground tied in common.

His response was that it has something to do with the difference in ground potential and switching power supplies.

I'm quite familiar with the ground potential issue as I have done some wiring of sound and video recording/editing studios. [years ago]

Single point ground! Mandatory in radio/TV broadcast stations.

Maybe? Maybe not!

Dave C.
Grizzly G0678 CNC conversion with Acorn in progress!

Commotion
Posts: 42
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 6:47 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none
Location: Bisbane Australia

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by Commotion » Fri Jan 26, 2018 6:22 pm

I don’t have much to add to this other than I have leadshine servos and 24/5v meanwell PS. I have the 48v PS for the servos wired in parallel with the acorn power supply so running a single power cable and I have not had any issues with power up. I did used to have it not boot properly when I had separate power cables and didn’t plug them in and turn on pc in right sequence.

My sequence now is to plug everything in (which instantly powers up acorn and servos) and then power up computer.

cnckeith
Posts: 605
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 4:23 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: Yes
DC3IOB: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
System Serial Number: none
Contact:

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by cnckeith » Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:19 pm

Hey guys if you are using multiple power supplies an experiencing no start, attached is a draft tech bulletin that covers several solutions to the no start. the best solution seems to be to use a multi voltage output power supply instead of separate units.
ACORN_dual_suppy_tech_bulletin_draft.pdf
(2.61 MiB) Downloaded 40 times

Krenovian
Posts: 20
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:50 am
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: none

Re: Anomalous Behavior of Beagle Bone Green on Acorn Board with separate power supplies

Post by Krenovian » Sat Jan 27, 2018 4:47 pm

Thanks for putting this together Keith.

CJ

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: andyolney and 1 guest