Intercon - rigid tapping

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ScotY
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Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by ScotY »

I'm having trouble figuring out how to program rigid tapping in Intercon. The manual (yeah, I actually had a peek :lol: ) says you can use a floating tap holder, a rigid tap with spindle reversing, or a self-reversing tap head. But then it says choose between floating or reversing in Intercon. I chose reversing. So, when I run it, it waits until I turn on the spindle, only then will it proceed to move into the part (just tapping air right now, for obvious reasons). I don't have spindle control yet. But, after in reaches the bottom, it just pulls back out.

So, obviously I have things I need to get done before this is going to work. I got my signal isolator in today and will order a relay so I can, hopefully, have spindle rpm control and the ability to reverse rotation. Once I have this working, what else do I need to do?

I don't see anything in the g-code from the above Intercon generated file that looks like it will stop the spindle and reverse it. I've looked at the g-code for a part I found which was included in the CNC12 files called Sample_part_1-enc. I believe it's G84 that actually does the tap operation in that file. But I still don't know how the spindle changes direction. Oddly, my test file from above uses G85 which is listed as a boring cycle. Naturally, I am confused by all of this. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
frijoli
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by frijoli »

Hi Scot, Mill or lathe?
Without spindle Encoder you can not use rigid tapping.
G85 doesn't reverse. If you can't reverse the spindle, you have to use a a reversing tap head.
G84 is right hand tapping, which I believe is what you want if you don't have an encoder.

On my mill, which does not have rigid tapping(no encoder), if the dwell is too long it won't reverse fast enough and moves on thinking it's done. (which is not good for taps)
I assume you can reverse the spindle automatically?


Clay
Clay
near Winston-Salem, NC
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ScotY
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by ScotY »

Hi Clay,
I'm trying on the lathe first. I do have an encoder hooked up (and working) but am currently unable to reverse the spindle or control the rpm from Acorn. I guess I don't understand the process. I assumed for rigid tapping, there would be a feed per rev move, then a spindle stop/reverse command, then feed per rev out. I don't see any M codes in the file that would do anything like this. In the video CNCKeith posted, it shows the spindle stopping and reversing fairly rapidly. Is a VFD or one of those KBSI drives that Milton has mentioned going to be necessary? I had planned on controlling my brushed DC motor using the 0-10v analog output and using a DPDT relay to switch direction. Btw, there is no dwell selection in the reversing tap menu in Intercon.
frijoli
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by frijoli »

ScotY wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:03 am Hi Clay,
I'm trying on the lathe first. I do have an encoder hooked up (and working) but am currently unable to reverse the spindle or control the rpm from Acorn. I guess I don't understand the process. I assumed for rigid tapping, there would be a feed per rev move, then a spindle stop/reverse command, then feed per rev out. I don't see any M codes in the file that would do anything like this. In the video CNCKeith posted, it shows the spindle stopping and reversing fairly rapidly. Is a VFD or one of those KBSI drives that Milton has mentioned going to be necessary? I had planned on controlling my brushed DC motor using the 0-10v analog output and using a DPDT relay to switch direction. Btw, there is no dwell selection in the reversing tap menu in Intercon.
You're right, the dwell is for a rigid tapping. My bad. Rigid tapping is what you want. G84.

Does your spindle reverse at all currently? If you write an MDI, M4 S300 does the spindle go in reverse? Try the tapping cycle at very low speeds, and a high TPI.
The tapping canned cycle controls the reverse rotation so you won't see it in the code, but the commands to the machine are there and function exactly like an M4.

Clay
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ScotY
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by ScotY »

If it’s hidden in the canned cycle, that would explain how it works. I have only manual spindle control at this time so I can’t test much.

It sure sounds like I need a spindle controller that is completely automatic and that my original plan to use a relay won’t work for rigid tapping?
DICKEYBIRD
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by DICKEYBIRD »

Hey Scot, didn't you mention having a servo for the spindle on your mill? If so, it seems to me the better home for it is on your lathe. To me, lathes need steady speeds & easy reversing more than mills. Depends on which one you need the rigid tapping for the most I suppose.
Milton in Collierville, TN

"Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."
DICKEYBIRD
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by DICKEYBIRD »

ScotY wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:18 pmIt sure sounds like I need a spindle controller that is completely automatic and that my original plan to use a relay won’t work for rigid tapping?
Your relay system will work fine but only if the electrickery is correct so that it can do repeated direction reversals without letting the smoke out of your DC motor controller. That's why I I went with a KBCC-125R. KB's engineers did all the smart thinking for me. :)
Milton in Collierville, TN

"Accuracy is the sum total of your compensating mistakes."
frijoli
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by frijoli »

ScotY wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:18 pm If it’s hidden in the canned cycle, that would explain how it works. I have only manual spindle control at this time so I can’t test much.

It sure sounds like I need a spindle controller that is completely automatic and that my original plan to use a relay won’t work for rigid tapping?
I'm confused. Can you reverse the spindle automatically or at all?

Clay
Clay
near Winston-Salem, NC
unofficial ACORN fb group https://www.facebook.com/groups/897054597120437/
ScotY
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by ScotY »

DICKEYBIRD wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:39 pm
ScotY wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:18 pmIt sure sounds like I need a spindle controller that is completely automatic and that my original plan to use a relay won’t work for rigid tapping?
Your relay system will work fine but only if the electrickery is correct so that it can do repeated direction reversals without letting the smoke out of your DC motor controller. That's why I I went with a KBCC-125R. KB's engineers did all the smart thinking for me. :)
Hey Milton,

Yeah, I’m a little concerned about a relay working properly, especially because I can’t see exactly what is in the canned cycle, i.e. how quickly it commands the reverse. And I’m also not sure how to wire the relay to the Acorn...mostly what settings to use in the Wizard so it knows to flip the relay and when.

The lathe is going to be harder to fit a servo motor to (I think) because of the mounting arrangement so I’m really wanting to avoid it until all my many other projects are caught up.
ScotY
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Re: Intercon - rigid tapping

Post by ScotY »

frijoli wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:18 pm
ScotY wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2018 12:18 pm If it’s hidden in the canned cycle, that would explain how it works. I have only manual spindle control at this time so I can’t test much.

It sure sounds like I need a spindle controller that is completely automatic and that my original plan to use a relay won’t work for rigid tapping?
I'm confused. Can you reverse the spindle automatically or at all?

Clay
Hi Clay,
I can reverse it but only using the original manual switches on the machine. Nothing for the spindle is wired to the Acorn at this time. I was trying to figure out all this stuff beforehand. So my issues are:
Sorting out the Intercon programming
Spindle control - what do I need and how to wire it up
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