Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

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muibubbles
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Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by muibubbles » Tue Dec 26, 2017 10:55 pm

Hey everyone, I just started wiring up my Acorn and was hoping someone can double check my wiring for my VFD.

Emerson Commander SE
Image
This link has each pin's function, description and notes (sorry It got jumbled when I copied and pasted it)
https://joliettech.com/products/ac-vari ... scription/

Acorn (H5)______________VFD
COM- VFD/COM__________Pin 1 (analog) & 4 (Digital)
OC6- VFD/RESET_________Pin 9
OC5- VFD/SPIN REVERSE __Pin 11
OC4- VFD SPIN FORWARD __Pin 10

Acorn (H8)____________________VFD
AN GND- VFD/0-10VDC COM______Pin 1 (analog) & 4 (Digital)
AN OUT- VFD/0-10VDC___________Pin 3

Power Supply__________VFD
+24VDC_______________Pin 7 & 14 (Do I need pin 7?)

Do I need to wire anything on the VFD For Pins 15 & 16 (Status Relay (Drive OK)) - Normally Open



Can anyone verify if this is correct/If I am missing or added too much?
Thank you!!!

muibubbles
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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by muibubbles » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:50 pm

Also can someone clarify for me..
Inputs 1-8 from Connectors H1 and H4 are labeled as "sourcing" types in the documents (page 7)
However on page 5, there is a diagram for "Sinking (NPN) Sensor wiring example) How does this work if all the inputs are "sourcing" types?

Also I was doing some research and on Schnieder Electrics site its shows opposite:
Image
Image
https://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/en/faqs/FA142566/

So now I'm really confused... Is NPN sinking or sourcing?
How is it the manuals example showing a sinking sensor when all the inputs are sourcing?
Is NPN and PNP a TYPE of sensor or is it the same sensor just wired 2 different ways?

Thanks for any help, this has got me so confused!
-Benny

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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by cncman172 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:15 am

Bubbles,

You VFD wiring is suspect. Please check you manual because pin#14 on the VFD should be the 24V common, NOT +24V. My guess is this is a misprint. Almost all VFD inputs from switch want the ground signal or common side of the 24V supply. These inputs are typically opto couplers which have the anode side held up to +24V and the switch inputs provide the other side to turn on the LED in the opto coupler.

IT is very important that you do not connect Pin7 and Pin17 together to +24V, that is the same is shorting out the 24V supply.

The rest of the connects look correct.

On pins 15 and 16 this is the ready signal. Please read my post on DRIVE READY SIGNALS, it will explain this in more detail. Bottom line is you can route a signal to Acorn input5 (Drive Ready), you can also assign that to other inputs.

I will post the answer to you sensor question in a few minutes.

Russ

cncman172
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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by cncman172 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 10:32 am

Bubbles,

You want to use NPN sensors. Proximity or optical like the one below.
PML53B-NO.JPG
I use these slot sensors for homing sensors, but could have also used proximity sensors.

When you set up you inputs in Acorn you will probably have to set the input type to NO. Always check your sensors after you get them wired up by using the Alt-i screen which will show you led indicators on the screen so you can see if they are changing when activated. Hope this helps.


Russ

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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by muibubbles » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:40 am

Hey Russ, Thank you for your input

Attached is a Photo from the manual I have, both pin 7 and 14 on the VFD reads "+24v VDC User Supply - 100mA mac short circuit protected"
The image I posted is the same publish image I've seen everywhere through my searching, hopefully the diagrams isn't wrong. Anyone else agree that pin 14 should be 24 VDC Common?
IT is very important that you do not connect Pin7 and Pin17 together to +24V, that is the same is shorting out the 24V supply.
I assume that was a typo and you meant Pin 7 and 14? (There is no pin 17) and thanks, You probably just saved me a ton of money or a replacement VFD LOL

I just found your thread and reading into your drive ready signal post now, thank you

As far as sensors, I was asking because my table already has proximity sensors (I'm doing a retro-fit to an AXYZ 5014 router table) and started looking into wiring them. From my initial search, I came across some information saying I need NPN sensors and an additional relay board to run proximity switches? That led me to start exploring the option of IEC limit switches like these: https://www.automationdirect.com/adc/Sh ... AAP2T35Z11

In reality I don't even understand if NPN or PNP itself is the TYPE of sensor or if they are the SAME sensor, just wired 2 different ways... Which may be the root of my confusion. (Is there a way to test if the sensors on the table are NPN or PNP? It's a Canadian brand manufacture so assumptions with what is "common" doesn't particularly apply to this as I've learn that about other components lol.

Lastly- Why do you say I will probably have to set the sensor up as NO? From my understanding, I thought NC was generally viewed as better and safer?

Thanks again for your time to help me out!
-Benny
Attachments
26132767_10155581165530379_1137831128_o.jpg

cncman172
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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by cncman172 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:10 pm

Bubbles,

Yes, it was a typo I was questioning pin 7 and 14, but after looking at their manual they both appear to be 24V. This is uncommon on most VFD, but you can still make this work. The Acorn uses NPN open collector outputs. So normally the output is pulled high inside the Acorn, you can see this on page 4 of the Acorn manual. When you want to activate an output the transistor is turned ON, this allows current to flow and it pulls the output down to ground or low.

In your cases pulling the output low will not activate the optos on your switch inputs on your VFD, they want to see a high of 24V. For example if you look at the schematic picture of your VFD wiring you will see Input 3 when a switch is closed will put 24V on pin #10, and that will start the motor. You will wire this up per the normal wiring diagrams, but you will need to invert the logic in the software. You really need to do this before you try to run anything because when Acorn is in its default normal start the outputs are off, meaning the transistor is not activated. If you come up turning on Forward and Reverse at the same time no telling what might happen, my guess is they have this setup to keep the spindle motor off.

So what is PNP or NPN, this is a common question. That is the transistor type used in the particular sensor.
0417_PNPvsNPN_F4.gif
0417_PNPvsNPN_F5.gif
The easy way to keep these straight is PNP = Points in Properly, and NPN = Never Points In
These are little phases electrical engineers using while in college to remember. If you look at the diagrams they are referring to the Arrows.


For the Acorn it wants to use NPN sensors. If you have those you can wire the three wires as follows. Common to Common, V+ to +24V, and the Output of the sensor to an input on the Acorn. Then turn on the Acorn and go into the software, not hit Alt-i this brings up the indicator page with lots of leds. Now when you activate the sensor with a piece of metal if it is proximity or a piece of paper if it is a slot sensor you should see the LED indicator associated with that input change from Green to Red back and forth as you activate the sensor. If this happens you know you have the sensor wired correctly.

Russ

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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by frijoli » Thu Dec 28, 2017 12:18 pm

So now I'm really confused... Is NPN sinking or sourcing?
Here's the way I remember what to do for wiring.

The last letter of the sensor tells you what the signal is switching.
PN(P) provides positive
Image


NP(N) provides negative
Image

Whichever device provides "positive" is sourcing. Whether it be a sensor or a PLC. Although I don't see the sinking/sourcing terminology use for sensors often; you see it a lot on PLC's and circuit boards.

So a PN(P) sensor sources the current/voltage to the sinking PLC.

Taking(sinking) is a negative "feeling". Giving(sourcing) is a positive "feeling".

This is not good electrical terminology, but it works for wiring.

Clay
Clay
Outside Winston-Salem, NC

Centroid_Tech
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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by Centroid_Tech » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:40 pm

There is a lot of good information on the "sinking" and "sourcing" aspect of inputs here so I hope that it has cleared up your confusion. I do see an issue with your initial wiring for the analog spindle voltage. The AN OUT terminal of the H8 connector on the ACORN should be connected to pin 2 not pin 3 as pin 3 is the power source if there was potentiometer installed.

Pins 15 and 16 are the terminals for the SpindleDriveFault which can be used in the ACORN. If that input is wired into the control, it will set an input when the drive is in a fault state. The Centroid control will see that input and prevent anything from happening until that drive's fault is reset.

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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by muibubbles » Mon Jan 29, 2018 10:33 pm

cncman172 wrote:
Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:10 pm
In your cases pulling the output low will not activate the optos on your switch inputs on your VFD, they want to see a high of 24V. For example if you look at the schematic picture of your VFD wiring you will see Input 3 when a switch is closed will put 24V on pin #10, and that will start the motor. You will wire this up per the normal wiring diagrams, but you will need to invert the logic in the software. You really need to do this before you try to run anything because when Acorn is in its default normal start the outputs are off, meaning the transistor is not activated. If you come up turning on Forward and Reverse at the same time no telling what might happen, my guess is they have this setup to keep the spindle motor off.
Can anyone explain step by step on how to invert the logic in the software?
Centroid_Tech wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:40 pm
The AN OUT terminal of the H8 connector on the ACORN should be connected to pin 2 not pin 3 as pin 3 is the power source if there was potentiometer installed.

Pins 15 and 16 are the terminals for the SpindleDriveFault which can be used in the ACORN. If that input is wired into the control, it will set an input when the drive is in a fault state. The Centroid control will see that input and prevent anything from happening until that drive's fault is reset.
Thank you for pointing this out! Does this mean pin 3 will be unused?

Is pin 15 and pin 16 interchangeable for (H8) AN Ground and AN Out?
On the schematic sheet it says
Acorn VFD
AN Ground 0-10v DC Com
AN Out 0-10v DC
Com Fault Com
IN5 (H1) Fault NC

So I'm a bit lost on exactly how to wire these in =/

p.s. I finally got the table running and tuned! So I just need to get the spindle going!

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Re: Help: Wiring up VFD (Commander SE)

Post by martyscncgarage » Thu Feb 01, 2018 8:04 pm

I answered you on Facebook and am answering you here.

If you want to keep it simple, you need a relay board with dry contacts:
6 Channel 24VDC Relay Board PLC DIN Rail Mounting NPN http://r.ebay.com/addtr0.

Connect it to outputs 3,4,5,6,7,8.
You need to put 24VDC from Acorn's power supply into the COM terminal on the relay board.
There are two COM terminals next to -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6. Either one of them is fine to connect Acorn +24VDC power to.
The -1, -2, -3, -4, -5, -6 go to Acorn OC 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. Giving you dry contacts controlled by those outputs.


Now use the relay dry contacts between your VFD's 24VDC and FWD/REV/RESET Terminals. (see below)

You have to do this because your VFD does not have the option of using COM/GND OR 24V.
You can't tie the 24V of your VFD to Acorn common.

In the wizard
Program OC6 to RESET (Connet the Common of the relay 6 to VFD 24VDC, connect the NO terminal of the relay to VFD Terminal 9)
Program OC5 to Spin Fwd (Connect the common of relay 5 to VFD 24VDC. connect the NO terminal of the relay to VFD Terminal 10)
Program OC4 to Spin Rev (Connect the common of relay 4 to VFD 24VDC, connect the NO terminal of the relay to VFD Terminal 11)

Take VFD terminal 15 to Acorn COM
Take VFD terminal 16 to a spare input on Acorn. (Program this input Spindle OK in the Wizard)

Test that you got the relays wired up right and working. You can turn them on and off manually via the manual spindle control on the virtual jog panel. The relay board is nice because it has an LED that let's you know when its on.

My best guess to connect Acorn H8 AN GND to VFD terminal 1, then connect Acorn H8 AN OUT to VFD Terminal 2. BUT BEFORE YOU DO THAT,
make sure you tested the outputs first and they are closing the proper terminals on the VFD.

Connect a 1.5V or 3V or 9V battery to those VFD terminals. Terminal 1(negative/COM) and Terminal 2 (positive) then turn on the output. If the spindle motor runs when the battery is connected and stops when disconnected, you can connect those terminals to Acorn.

Of course you need to program the VFD appropriately.

Take it slowly and one step at a time. You should be OK
"Jack of all trades, master of none!"
Mesa, AZ

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