Logan lathe CNC conversion

All things related to the Centroid Acorn CNC Controller

Moderator: cnckeith

DocsMachine
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by DocsMachine »

andyolney wrote: Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:13 pm Why use a pair of duplex angular contact bearings? Wouldn't single bearings have the same effect?
-Keeping in mind I am by no means an expert at this sort of thing, but generally speaking, single-row ball bearings really aren't designed to take axial thrust. That is, trying to push the center bearing race sideways, as in out of the outer race. Their load bearing capacity is almost entirely radial- that is, the center race rides on an axle, while the outer race rolls like a car tire.

In the case of this cross-slide, the radial capacity does little but locate the "axle" (the leadscrew) and allow it to turn freely. But moving the slide, and in some cases the cutting forces, puts an axial load on the bearings- to say nothing of the slight "preload" you'll want on whatever method used to attach the leadscrew to the bearings. You can see that, in a CNC working a complex part, there would be a lot of axial thrust loads on that bearing- a push each time the tool advances towards the work, a pull each time the tool is retracted, and so on.

On a machine this relatively light, the thrust loads are similarly fairly light, and may well not exceed the capacity of a standard radial ball bearing. Personally, I'm not an engineer, however, and tend to prefer to "build big"- that is, make it durable, even if it means overengineering it a bit. :D The double-row bearings were the only ones I could find at the time rated for axial thrust. I found out later (as I said, I'm not an expert :) ) that these basically take thrust from both directions, unlike a single-row axial thrust bearing, with generally only takes it from one direction. So I could have used just a single one of those bearings.
The Koyo Automation direct light duty encoder I am looking at (TRDA-2E2500VD) has a radial load capacity of 4.5 lbs and I am under the impression that the timing belt does not need a lot of tension. I completely understand being conservative in designing this mount, but I would love to keep it simple with a direct drive on the encoder. Any thoughts?
-I'll also admit heavily overengineering my encoder drive. :D

In my case, I needed a big (almost 3") toothed-belt pulley that I could bore out to slide onto the spindle tube in place of the drivetrain gear. It also had to be metal, not plastic, as that's actually part of the spindle bearing preload assembly- the threaded ring, or the collet closer adapter shown in the pictures, need to be solidly snugged into place, and can't move- that is, flow like plastic might- under use, heat and cutting forces. (IE, thrust against the spindle.)

Considering the size of the gear, I was limited to how narrow a belt I could get, which limited my choices for the driven gear as well. I'm sure that given enough time and research I could have found a workable pair- metal drive and lightweight plastic driven- that I could theoretically have mounted the driven gear straight to the encoder. But as I said, I prefer to build things fairly bulletproof- especially for something like this, which is destined for short-run production, if I can ever get it sorted out. That means many hours of use, and hopefully minimal downtime.

So I elected to do what I did, and built a heavy, overengineered mount that takes the load off the encoder entirely.

Doc.
andyolney
Posts: 26
Joined: Sat Nov 11, 2017 7:26 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Port Townsend, WA

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by andyolney »

Keith, Doc -
Thanks for the replys.

Re encoder: AD has a medium duty encoder for $30 more that has an 11 lbf radial rating vs 4.5 lbf for the light duty one. I think I'll try it and see how it lasts. I do have to modify the timing pulley for the spindle like you did but I need only a 1.5 to 2 inch dia pulley.

Re bearing arrangement: Angular contact ball bearings are designed to take axial loads and I am currently working out how to fit some into my cross slide design. I was interested to hear about your design choices.

Andy
DocsMachine
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by DocsMachine »

Okay, returned the dead Leadshine and got my refund, and was getting ready to order another. I'd been thinking about the closed loop options (I asked about the benefits of Clearpaths in another thread) and figured I'd give that a try. I picked up a set of the Automation technologies "hybrid" steppers, and they bolted right on. I wasn't particularly thrilled with the short cables supplied with the motors, but the encoder cable came with an extension, and it was easy enough to graft on an extension for the power cable.

Image

And of course that's two more cable for my wall-o'-insanity: :D

Image

I booted up the system and everything ran perfectly. The drives have a direction-reverse DIP switch right on them, so you can swap directions either there or in the Acorn Wizard.

I only had time to get 'em installed and do a very preliminary calibration- they're still off by some 30% at the moment, so hopefully later this week I'll have a chance to follow Marty's video instructions and get 'em fairly closely calibrated.

Doc.
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9914
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by martyscncgarage »

👍
Keep us posted Doc....
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
DocsMachine
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by DocsMachine »

I suppose I should tie these together... In this thread I detailed some issues I had (am having?) with the new Automation technologies stepper setup.

After some difficulty brought on mostly by my ignorance of the subject, I was finally able to get them more or less sorted. At the moment I have the Z axis bang-on, save for the inevitable fine tuning once I can put a dial indicator on that axis, but the X is puzzling me.

For the Z, I have the driver set at 4000 pulses, the Wizard set for a matching 4000 pulses, and, with a 5TPI leadscrew and 3:1 reduction belting, the "turns ratio" set at 15 even. When commanding a 1" move, I get 15 turns on the pulley (the motors are dismounted for the moment) pretty much exactly. (As read by eye and a Sharpie mark. :D )

However, for the X, which has an approximately 6.5 TPI leadscrew plus the 3:1 reduction (19.5 on the turns ratio) when I tried the same 4000/4000 pulses, I only got 9-3/4 turns. In order to get the correct movement, I have to either set the Wizard for 8000 pulses, or the driver for 2000 pulses.

Anyone know what might be halving the signal somewhere in the system from the computer to the motor? Or do I just have a glitchy driver? (Both drivers have the exact same DIP switch settings- and I was still getting half motion even at 400/400, 800/800, 1600/1600, and 3200/3200.)

Doc.
DocsMachine
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by DocsMachine »

Had a bit of spare time today, so I slapped one of my eBay Omron limit switches onto the X axis:

Image

(As always, the full build on this conversion can be found here.)

The question is, will this be a problem, having it "home to switch" in the X-negative direction, as in, towards the workpiece?

I'll be adding a limit to the Z as well, and I'm presuming I'll have it home the Z first, then the X. I kind of presumed I should have the X home positive, away from the work, but there was no easy way to fit the switch, without a bunch of oddball bracketry and a handful of new holes drilled and tapped.

Also, will it be a problem having the Z 'home' be at the far right hand end of the bed? I can mount a switch there pretty easily, but if it's going to buzz on over there for each tool change, I can see that eating up a lot of time. I do plan on using a tailstock on occasion, so I was thinking of a movable switch as well. (Can you have two Z-axis limits?)

Doc.
frijoli
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:03 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 1030090099
DC3IOB: Yes
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Outside Winston-Salem, NC
Contact:

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by frijoli »

DocsMachine wrote: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:41 am Had a bit of spare time today, so I slapped one of my eBay Omron limit switches onto the X axis:

(As always, the full build on this conversion can be found here.)

Also, will it be a problem having the Z 'home' be at the far right hand end of the bed? I can mount a switch there pretty easily, but if it's going to buzz on over there for each tool change, I can see that eating up a lot of time. I do plan on using a tailstock on occasion, so I was thinking of a movable switch as well. (Can you have two Z-axis limits?)

Doc.
You can home the machine in any direction, but it's usually a good idea to make it a safe direction. Like away from the chuck and work pieces.
This is for the machine, not the part.
You can also have the tool change where ever you want. That position is not related to the "home" switches except that the control uses the home switches to set all other positions. The machine startup sequence is so the machine knows where all other positions are.

Lots of industrial machines have multiple switches for over-travel. One for home and two more for travel limits on each. They will take up your inputs though.

Clay
Clay
near Winston-Salem, NC
unofficial ACORN fb group https://www.facebook.com/groups/897054597120437/
DocsMachine
Posts: 150
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:43 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: No
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by DocsMachine »

Page 21 of the build is up. I got the Z axis limit switch mounted, got the "home to switch" working (right the first time, too :D ) and set up a digital caliper-type 6" slide to help me set the turns ratio.

Image

As noted in another thread, I wasn't able to open the supplied Excel file, so another poster helpfully supplied a link to the actual math involved. While I didn't have it as easy as just typing in numbers, the math is straightforward, and it just took a little patience.

I got the Z to within 0.0005" in 5" of travel, and the X spot-on at 4.0000" in 4" of travel.

Image

-Each, of course, within the limits of the half-thou resolution, no-name import digital-caliper type bar. :D Probably not actually perfect, but almost certainly pretty dang close.

I was, however, happy to see that, while I was adjusting and readjusting the turns ratio, each time I reset the Acorn and re-homed it, it kept coming right back to precisely the same spot, each and every time.

Image

Those Omrons are apparently some pretty good switches. :)

Now, unless I'm forgetting something, I think I just need to set up a couple tools (tool offsets) and 'part zero' on a chunk of 1" roundbar, and I should be about ready to try the pawn program.

Doc.
frijoli
Posts: 595
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:03 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: No
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: 1030090099
DC3IOB: Yes
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
Location: Outside Winston-Salem, NC
Contact:

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by frijoli »

Very cool Doc.

Looking forward to seeing the pawn chips!
Clay
near Winston-Salem, NC
unofficial ACORN fb group https://www.facebook.com/groups/897054597120437/
martyscncgarage
Posts: 9914
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2017 12:01 pm
Acorn CNC Controller: Yes
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
Oak CNC controller: No
CNC Control System Serial Number: none
DC3IOB: No
CNC12: Yes
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: Yes
Location: Mesa, AZ

Re: Logan lathe CNC conversion

Post by martyscncgarage »

Nice work Doc!
Did I miss what you found about your stepper/drive issues?
Marty
Reminder, for support please follow this post: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=383
We can't "SEE" what you see...
Mesa, AZ
Post Reply