Z Break release "delay"

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MT_Argentina
Posts: 17
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System Serial Number: 1013161612
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Z Break release "delay"

Post by MT_Argentina » Mon Mar 20, 2017 12:59 pm

Hello,
Every time I hit E-Stop the spindle column would go down half an inch, as if there were a significant delay between the Z axis servo 'release' and the Z break 'catch'.

Any help would be appreciated!

PS: it also happens when I hit any Z axis limit switch

cnckeith
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Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by cnckeith » Wed Mar 22, 2017 9:52 pm

Please attach a copy of the system "report.zip" file so we can see the configuration settings of the control system.
instructions on how to create a report. http://www.centroidcnc.com/dealersuppor ... ds/193.pdf
and video https://youtu.be/UkybMn99k34?list=PLXhs ... STDELrnNx2

MT_Argentina
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:58 am
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: 1013161612
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by MT_Argentina » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:10 pm

Here is the report.

Possibly related to this: I didn't feel confident enough to tune the servomotors (not sure how to do it), just left the standard configuration.
Sometimes when I move to Z positive (spindle up) there is a weird jerky motion that disappears if I release and press the Z+ button again .

If it is of any help, my servos are SEM MT30U4-31.

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report.zip
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Centroid_Liviu
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Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by Centroid_Liviu » Thu Mar 23, 2017 12:40 pm

Thank you for the report. Support will take a look.

In regards to the tuning please see this video tutorial on DC Motor Tuning, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDPyc7aYscU .

Centroid_Tech
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Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by Centroid_Tech » Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:13 am

From the main screen press ALT+I. This will bring up 4 rows of red and green circles which is what we call the PLC Diagnostic menu. The top row are your inputs while the row directly underneath are your outputs. Look at output 9, which is the Z brake release output. It should be red. Press F3(MDI). That output should now be green. Type M93 and press Cycle Start. Does that output turn red the moment you press Cycle Start? If so, then using your schematic verify that the output itself on the ALLIN1DC is turning on and off as quickly as the CNC11 software is telling it to. If it is, then verify that you are seeing the correct voltage at the motor as quickly as the output is turning on and off. If you are, then it could be a mechanical issue with the brake mechanism that it's taking too long to engage.

If you would like us to assist you in tuning your motors, please make sure that you have internet access to the control, install TeamViewer https://www.teamviewer.com/en/, and provide us with your ID and password so that we can log onto your system.

cncsnw
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Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by cncsnw » Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:00 am

For what it's worth, if you have a fly-back diode across the brake coil, that can delay a return to the clamped state. If that causes a problem, you may want to try a varistor for suppression instead.

MT_Argentina
Posts: 17
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Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
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CNC11: Yes
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System Serial Number: 1013161612
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by MT_Argentina » Tue Mar 28, 2017 11:22 am

Thanks for the responses.
Centroid_Tech wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:13 am
From the main screen press ALT+I. This will bring up 4 rows of red and green circles which is what we call the PLC Diagnostic menu. The top row are your inputs while the row directly underneath are your outputs. Look at output 9, which is the Z brake release output. It should be red. Press F3(MDI). That output should now be green. Type M93 and press Cycle Start. Does that output turn red the moment you press Cycle Start?
It doesn't. It matches perfectly the delay of the break.
cncsnw wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:00 am
For what it's worth, if you have a fly-back diode across the brake coil, that can delay a return to the clamped state. If that causes a problem, you may want to try a varistor for suppression instead.
There is a diode, factory installed by Bridgeport. That delay never existed with the old BOSS control...

Centroid_Tech
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Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by Centroid_Tech » Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:55 pm

I would like you to update the CNC11 software to CNC11 v3.16 https://www.ajaxcnc.com/ajax-cnc-software-downloads/. When it gets to the last section of the installation where it will ask if you want to install a PLC program, select No. If you do not do this, it will overwrite your configuration files with the default configuration files. After you have successfully installed CNC11 v3.16, I would like you to change a parameter. From the main screen, press F1(Setup)->F3(Config)->default password is 137->F3(Params). Press F8(Next Table) until you are at parameters 300 thru 399. Change parameter 365 to 0 and press F10(Save). See if that resolves your issue.

MT_Argentina
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2016 9:58 am
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
MPU11 & GPIO4D -w/ 3rd Party Drives: No
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No
System Serial Number: 1013161612
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina

Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by MT_Argentina » Wed Mar 29, 2017 6:57 pm

Centroid_Tech wrote:
Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:55 pm
I would like you to update the CNC11 software to CNC11 v3.16 https://www.ajaxcnc.com/ajax-cnc-software-downloads/. When it gets to the last section of the installation where it will ask if you want to install a PLC program, select No. If you do not do this, it will overwrite your configuration files with the default configuration files. After you have successfully installed CNC11 v3.16, I would like you to change a parameter. From the main screen, press F1(Setup)->F3(Config)->default password is 137->F3(Params). Press F8(Next Table) until you are at parameters 300 thru 399. Change parameter 365 to 0 and press F10(Save). See if that resolves your issue.
Hello:
I Have followed the procedure (updated to CNC11 v3.16, set parameter 365 "Power Drive Delay, milliseconds"=0) ,but still got the problem.
The output signal for the Z-Brake is always late (we measured it with a test lamp). It causes the break to keep holding the Z axis when it shouldn't: after releasing E-STOP, the first movement in Z produces a Stall error or a jerky movement, all while the Z torque bar peaks in red. It also causes the "Z drop" in height when transitions from servo to break.
cncsnw wrote:
Sat Mar 25, 2017 12:00 am
For what it's worth, if you have a fly-back diode across the brake coil, that can delay a return to the clamped state. If that causes a problem, you may want to try a varistor for suppression instead.
We also removed a diode to test if it has any effect. Nothing, the problem persists.

I also tuned the servos, as instructed in the video. Everything went pretty smoothly.

admin
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Re: Z Break release "delay"

Post by admin » Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:09 pm

please post a current report so we can see the current settings being used. thanks.

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