Teco FM50 to all in one dc

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JakesPorting
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 pm
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 1013141134
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Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by JakesPorting »

Ok on to the next issue I have a teco fm50 inverter that I want to connect and use as
my phase converter but I was going to still use the bridgeport air spindle up down speed
control .

I was reading and found some of the diagrams on the forum but I don't think those applications
used my configuration.

Any help would be appreciated thanks

Jake
cncsnw
Posts: 3765
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:48 pm

Re: Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by cncsnw »

When you say you want to use the Teco inverter as a phase converter, many would assume you mean to connect the 3-phase output of the inverter to the control's incoming power terminals; have it run all the time at 60Hz; and still use contactors to turn the spindle motor on and off.

If that is what you meant, then the answer is "don't do that".

If, on the other hand, you were planning to install the inverter in the usual manner, as a spindle controller powering only the spindle motor, only on demand, with soft start and stop and perhaps with speed control, then that is not difficult.

Wiring for on/off, direction, fault detection and fault reset should be on most standard wiring schematics. You will need to read the manual that came with the inverter to learn what your particular inverter calls its sequence common, run forward, run reverse, fault reset and fault output terminals.

If you really don't want to use the inverter for programmable spindle speed, you should be able to configure it for a fixed output frequency (probably a frequency entered on the inverter's digital keypad, perhaps stored in a parameter value in the inverter). Then you can use the pneumatic vari-speed.

Personally, I would not recommend doing that. Using the 0-10V analog speed reference from the All-in-one DC to control spindle speed through the inverter is much simpler and more reliable. Why use the vari-speed? Are you concerned about having adequate torque, even when shifted into back gear?
JakesPorting
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 pm
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 1013141134
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by JakesPorting »

cncsnw wrote:When you say you want to use the Teco inverter as a phase converter, many would assume you mean to connect the 3-phase output of the inverter to the control's incoming power terminals; have it run all the time at 60Hz; and still use contactors to turn the spindle motor on and off.

If that is what you meant, then the answer is "don't do that".

No I am not going to do it this way.

If, on the other hand, you were planning to install the inverter in the usual manner, as a spindle controller powering only the spindle motor, only on demand, with soft start and stop and perhaps with speed control, then that is not difficult.

Wiring for on/off, direction, fault detection and fault reset should be on most standard wiring schematics. You will need to read the manual that came with the inverter to learn what your particular inverter calls its sequence common, run forward, run reverse, fault reset and fault output terminals.

If you really don't want to use the inverter for programmable spindle speed, you should be able to configure it for a fixed output frequency (probably a frequency entered on the inverter's digital keypad, perhaps stored in a parameter value in the inverter). Then you can use the pneumatic vari-speed.

Yes this is the way that I was wanting to wire it into the system no contactors just use the inverter for forward reverse start stop. I have it wired in now and can make the spindle run controlling it from the inverter but I am either missing a parameter in the inverter or my wiring is wrong because I am having trouble to get the control pendant to start the spindle.
More than likely it is my wiring and that is sort of why I posted the question .


Personally, I would not recommend doing that. Using the 0-10V analog speed reference from the All-in-one DC to control spindle speed through the inverter is much simpler and more reliable. Why use the vari-speed? Are you concerned about having adequate torque, even when shifted into back gear?
I was wanting to use the vari-speed just because it works no other reason that I can come up with.

Thanks for your time Jake
AMDlloydsp
Posts: 91
Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2013 4:32 pm
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Re: Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by AMDlloydsp »

Jake, there ARE good reasons to stick with it, until you're ready to spend some real money.

CNC-sed, "Personally, I would not recommend doing that. Using the 0-10V analog speed reference from the All-in-one DC to control spindle speed through the inverter is much simpler and more reliable. Why use the vari-speed? Are you concerned about having adequate torque, even when shifted into back gear?"

No, it's not more reliable with the motor that's stock on the BP. That motor is not inverter-rated, and is known to belch copper-colored phlegm when run at lower frequencies for too long. So... just replace the motor; right? Not so simple. It's a special frame and extended shaft on that puppy, and not readily available these days.

There is a packaged solution out there for the BP heads, to convert them to 100% vari-speed inverter control, and it's relatively attractive in price. For the life of me, I cannot find my notes to give you a link. If I find it, I'll post it.

Lloyd
JakesPorting
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 pm
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
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Re: Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by JakesPorting »

Hi I'm back at this and need some help with the documentation of wiring the bridgeport boss spindle speed up and down and the brake solenoid into the all in one dc board.

What I need to know the most is the output locations that these controls wire into.

I have the inverter wired into the system and it works with that controlling the spindle speed but as Lloyd said I don't want to burn up the spindle motor. Disclaimer I am not running it at slower speeds right now just for testing at a fixed 60 hz

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

The system id # 1013141134 if that helps anyone at ajax with my configuration.

Thanks Jake
diycncscott

Re: Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by diycncscott »

Hi Jake,

Please post or email a current report.zip from you system so I can verify your current configuration.

For the BOSS machines there are two standard configurations:

1. VFD - Spindle override +- buttons adjust the 0-10VDC output to change spindle speed.

2. Speed Up/Down solenoids - Spindle override +- buttons turn on/off outputs that activate air solenoids to mechanically adjust the vari-speed to change spindle speed.

If you want to try to combine both, I would map the spindle override +- buttons for the VFD configuration and map Speed Up/Down to aux keys.

If you post a report and tell me which aux keys you prefer (4&7?), I'll make the change(s) and post here.

FWIW I agree with Marc. With this "combo" type of setup, you'll never know your actual spindle rpm without putting a tach on it. (yes, you could map the pot on the head if it has one, pump it into the analog input and dynamically adjust the ratios but it still wouldn't be exact and your on your own if you want try it). I think you would be better off pinning the vari-speed and just use the VFD for adjustments. Yes, what Lloyd mentioned about the dangers of running the motor at low frequencies is valid but that's what the back gear is for.
JakesPorting
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Sep 01, 2014 6:15 pm
Allin1DC CNC Controller: Yes
CNC Control System Serial Number: 1013141134
DC3IOB: No
CNC11: Yes
CPU10 or CPU7: No

Re: Teco FM50 to all in one dc

Post by JakesPorting »

Hi Scott I will get that report for you this weekend and send it .

I did have the 0 to 10v hooked up and the +- on the control pendant worked the vfd control.

Thanks Jake.
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